Leo Lewis, movie reviewer for the Times of London, liked what he saw at the world premiere of Spider-Man 3 yesterday in Tokyo, but he ends the review with a gripe:
Also disappointing is the inability of the director, Sam Raimi, to end the romp without a fleeting shot of the American flag. The Stars and Stripes just happens to be fluttering behind Spidey as he makes his triumphal return to honour, probity and good honest fist-fighting.
Andrew Hiller (who e-mailed me the review) responds: “Come up with your own superhero, you whining Tories.” Heh.
I’m going off-topic here, but not really sure where else to put this. Is it me, or is it outrageous that the media are doing exactly what this psycho Cho wanted by airing his shit on TV? There was a time when the news media wouldn’t have done this. All NBC and the like are doing is encouraging the next Cho/Klebold/Harris, etc… by demonstrating that they can, indeed, get the 15-minutes of infamy they crave by killing innocent people and sending a tape into a TV network.
I’m offended that “Hot Fuzz” is set in England. Why isn’t it set in the USA?
Screw the British. I say we cut off all U.S. movies to them. Let them watch the latest iteration of “The Full Monty,” be it “Kinky Boots,” “Waking Ned Devine,” or “Calendar Girls.”
Now, I say, Green Goblin, this is quite the sticky wicket. If I let you bugger off with these here Crown Jewels, the Queen will have me bollucks in a sling…
I think the point has to do with the gratuitous use of the flag, not anything against the United States. In a sense, I kind of agree. A megachurch near my house in California always has a huge American flag on the side of it, and I find that a bit much. Feel free to disagree.
And Tories doesn’t really work, because they are kinda conservative (and probably wouldn’t be offended by the flag), but Hiller probably couldn’t think of anything better (and was a afraid to use Limey).
Recall how awesome Spider Man 1 was with the NY / USA pride imagery as one of the first post-9/11 films to feature NYC. In fact, the movie had to be edited (or at least the trailer) to remove a scene involving the two towers. Raimi deserves continual praise for his use of Spidey to celebrate America, and especially, NY at its ideal best: “You mess with Spidey, you mess with NY!” “Whatsamatta w you . . . pickin on a guy tryin ta sava a buncha kids !?” (I love that guy). Green Goblin getting hit by cabbies and cops throwing bricks and crowbars. Sigh.
I haven’t seen the film, obviously, but I can speculate as to the objection: to a more international audience, overly explicit or misplaced symbols of nationalism are weird, or at least uncomfortable.
Even as Spiderman is set in NYC and therefore the USA, a giant, conspicuous, waving flag in a context of a hero beating up the bad guys just smacks of jingoism.
I dont think we anime fans get too upset when the rising sun appears behind a screaming/crying character as their hair turns gold and the tiny pebbles around them start to rise and little bowls of rice swirl around their head and flashing colors and dancing panda bears surround the screen. Not offended at all.
4-7: you just caused me to have to wipe spit off of my monitor.
I really have no problem with the flag in the Spidey movies. I mean, seriously, who cares? Its a flag, and it will soon be out of view (at least, in a Spiderman movie).
Torry isn’t a slur, btw, since all English and Canadian conservatives proudly go by that name, and have for hundreds of years. Thus, they don’t have a problem with it.
The only reason I’d take offense to the flag is that it’s really not true to character. Spidey does what’s right because it’s right, not out of any sense of nationalism. (Even if I did love the angry New Yorkers on the bridge scene.) Keep the flag with the characters that began as propaganda poster boys, like Superman or Cap.
That said, I am of course offended by this man’s offense. Besides, they have Captain Britain and their own X-Men team, Excalibur.
Sean, you’re right as to comic purity, I don’t recall Spider pre 9/11 being a Captain America type (but definitely a home grown new yorker). However, recall how the producers of Superman Returns wholly abdicated Supe’s Truth Justice and the American Way thing and openly paraded him in interviews, etc., when challenged on Frank Langella’s line “Truth Justice and All that Stuff” that Superman should be an international hero.
I took initial offense to the idea of wiping away superman’s connection to American way-of-life patriotism, but, then again, I never kept up with Superman comics. When I finally saw Superman Returns, I thought, yeah, maybe Superman IS better as an international hero (he is a native alien, after all). In the end, I didn’t take Langella’s line as some snipe against antiquated patriotism (although the producers did seem to think that way about Superman, which is regrettable, to have an animus to his American way origins).
With Superman no longer on the mantle (at least in film, as America’s poster boy), I think it might be fair to ask Spidey to take his spot, if only because the New York Spirit is often identified with the American spirit these days (its diversity, its resilency, whether or not true to fact). And heck. His costume is red white and blue. At least sometimes.
Brendan, yes, there is a Captain Britain in Marvel Comics. Secret identity Brian Braddock. Grab a copy of Excalibur sometime and you’ll see him. I shit you not.
Nice joke, but “Whig” but would be a better politically-related insult than Tory. The British themselves used to use the word to disparage the powdered-wig, Queen Victoria, Empire-loving traditionalists of yore.
A Whig is liberal, btw, but of the old-fashioned sort, not the hippie peacenik kind :). Here in Canada we call our Conservative party the Tories, and our Liberals the Grits.
Oh yeah, and the word Limey comes from the fact that British sailors used to suck on limes to prevent scurvy. Its current usage reflects the importance and emphasis places on the British Navy in the Empire days.
I am proud that the flag was used again. Spider-Man is an American icon and I applaud Sam Raimi for including it in the 2nd and 3rd films. I thought the only reason he used it in the 1st was because of 9/11. Bryan Singer should be ashamed of himself by changing the Superman mantra of standing for truth justice and the American way. These days Superman stands for truth justice and all that stuff. Its the American way that made this country great. Everything that followed in the 60s and today… (as Borat would say), not so much. Since when has pariotism become such a bad thing?
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April 19th, 2007 at 10:35:59 am
Next time make sure James Bond doesn’t have the Union Jack in the background, you fucking Limey.
April 19th, 2007 at 10:36:13 am
What–Surrender-Man?
April 19th, 2007 at 10:46:14 am
I’m going off-topic here, but not really sure where else to put this. Is it me, or is it outrageous that the media are doing exactly what this psycho Cho wanted by airing his shit on TV? There was a time when the news media wouldn’t have done this. All NBC and the like are doing is encouraging the next Cho/Klebold/Harris, etc… by demonstrating that they can, indeed, get the 15-minutes of infamy they crave by killing innocent people and sending a tape into a TV network.
April 19th, 2007 at 12:24:55 pm
Wait ’til they see any movie featuring Captain fucking America!!!
USA! USA! USA!
April 19th, 2007 at 12:31:20 pm
I’m sure racial slurs were the best way to handle this.
April 19th, 2007 at 12:34:23 pm
“Come up with your own superhero, you whining Tories.â€
LOL
April 19th, 2007 at 12:49:34 pm
Are “Tory” and “Limey” considered “racial slurs?” Are white anglos a different race than white anglos?
April 19th, 2007 at 12:52:14 pm
I’m offended that “Hot Fuzz” is set in England. Why isn’t it set in the USA?
Screw the British. I say we cut off all U.S. movies to them. Let them watch the latest iteration of “The Full Monty,” be it “Kinky Boots,” “Waking Ned Devine,” or “Calendar Girls.”
April 19th, 2007 at 12:58:09 pm
that’s a punishment no one should have to endure!
April 19th, 2007 at 1:13:30 pm
Are white anglos a different race than white anglos?
Heh.
April 19th, 2007 at 1:17:06 pm
Now, I say, Green Goblin, this is quite the sticky wicket. If I let you bugger off with these here Crown Jewels, the Queen will have me bollucks in a sling…
April 19th, 2007 at 1:47:54 pm
holy crap, I just spit up my drink… that was too funny, Spidre-Man
:)
April 19th, 2007 at 1:51:10 pm
Wait ’til they see any movie featuring Captain fucking America!!!
Or the old G.I. Joe movie :)
April 19th, 2007 at 1:52:37 pm
Limey is. Tory is a political affiliation.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:05:36 pm
I think the point has to do with the gratuitous use of the flag, not anything against the United States. In a sense, I kind of agree. A megachurch near my house in California always has a huge American flag on the side of it, and I find that a bit much. Feel free to disagree.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:36:34 pm
And Tories doesn’t really work, because they are kinda conservative (and probably wouldn’t be offended by the flag), but Hiller probably couldn’t think of anything better (and was a afraid to use Limey).
Recall how awesome Spider Man 1 was with the NY / USA pride imagery as one of the first post-9/11 films to feature NYC. In fact, the movie had to be edited (or at least the trailer) to remove a scene involving the two towers. Raimi deserves continual praise for his use of Spidey to celebrate America, and especially, NY at its ideal best: “You mess with Spidey, you mess with NY!” “Whatsamatta w you . . . pickin on a guy tryin ta sava a buncha kids !?” (I love that guy). Green Goblin getting hit by cabbies and cops throwing bricks and crowbars. Sigh.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:07:29 pm
I haven’t seen the film, obviously, but I can speculate as to the objection: to a more international audience, overly explicit or misplaced symbols of nationalism are weird, or at least uncomfortable.
Even as Spiderman is set in NYC and therefore the USA, a giant, conspicuous, waving flag in a context of a hero beating up the bad guys just smacks of jingoism.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:42:04 pm
Remember when they took the term “Japs” out of “Pearl Harbor?” because they were afraid they would offend the Nipponese?
April 19th, 2007 at 5:04:18 pm
I dont think we anime fans get too upset when the rising sun appears behind a screaming/crying character as their hair turns gold and the tiny pebbles around them start to rise and little bowls of rice swirl around their head and flashing colors and dancing panda bears surround the screen. Not offended at all.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:48:08 pm
4-7: you just caused me to have to wipe spit off of my monitor.
I really have no problem with the flag in the Spidey movies. I mean, seriously, who cares? Its a flag, and it will soon be out of view (at least, in a Spiderman movie).
Torry isn’t a slur, btw, since all English and Canadian conservatives proudly go by that name, and have for hundreds of years. Thus, they don’t have a problem with it.
April 19th, 2007 at 6:12:06 pm
The only reason I’d take offense to the flag is that it’s really not true to character. Spidey does what’s right because it’s right, not out of any sense of nationalism. (Even if I did love the angry New Yorkers on the bridge scene.) Keep the flag with the characters that began as propaganda poster boys, like Superman or Cap.
That said, I am of course offended by this man’s offense. Besides, they have Captain Britain and their own X-Men team, Excalibur.
April 19th, 2007 at 6:17:20 pm
Captain Britain? HAHA!
April 19th, 2007 at 6:44:10 pm
Sean, you’re right as to comic purity, I don’t recall Spider pre 9/11 being a Captain America type (but definitely a home grown new yorker). However, recall how the producers of Superman Returns wholly abdicated Supe’s Truth Justice and the American Way thing and openly paraded him in interviews, etc., when challenged on Frank Langella’s line “Truth Justice and All that Stuff” that Superman should be an international hero.
I took initial offense to the idea of wiping away superman’s connection to American way-of-life patriotism, but, then again, I never kept up with Superman comics. When I finally saw Superman Returns, I thought, yeah, maybe Superman IS better as an international hero (he is a native alien, after all). In the end, I didn’t take Langella’s line as some snipe against antiquated patriotism (although the producers did seem to think that way about Superman, which is regrettable, to have an animus to his American way origins).
With Superman no longer on the mantle (at least in film, as America’s poster boy), I think it might be fair to ask Spidey to take his spot, if only because the New York Spirit is often identified with the American spirit these days (its diversity, its resilency, whether or not true to fact). And heck. His costume is red white and blue. At least sometimes.
April 19th, 2007 at 10:14:00 pm
Brendan, yes, there is a Captain Britain in Marvel Comics. Secret identity Brian Braddock. Grab a copy of Excalibur sometime and you’ll see him. I shit you not.
April 19th, 2007 at 10:22:59 pm
I say again:
HAHA!
April 19th, 2007 at 11:27:10 pm
Actually, there is also a Captain America like Marvel Superhero called Union Jack. no joke either.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:05:53 pm
As long as we don’t mention USAgent. (shiver)
April 20th, 2007 at 12:17:41 pm
Shouldn’t the spelling be “Cap’n Britain.”
http://www.toonopedia.com/capnbrit.jpg
April 20th, 2007 at 12:18:13 pm
Wow. Captain Britain. “The Greatest Superhero of All.”
WTF???
April 20th, 2007 at 12:22:17 pm
Nice joke, but “Whig” but would be a better politically-related insult than Tory. The British themselves used to use the word to disparage the powdered-wig, Queen Victoria, Empire-loving traditionalists of yore.
A Whig is liberal, btw, but of the old-fashioned sort, not the hippie peacenik kind :). Here in Canada we call our Conservative party the Tories, and our Liberals the Grits.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:23:29 pm
Oh yeah, and the word Limey comes from the fact that British sailors used to suck on limes to prevent scurvy. Its current usage reflects the importance and emphasis places on the British Navy in the Empire days.
April 20th, 2007 at 3:07:10 pm
DFens - in Canada, you call your various political parties all sorts of things, and a lot of what you call them is NSFW … (grin) …
April 20th, 2007 at 3:18:17 pm
“DFens - in Canada, you call your various political parties all sorts of things, and a lot of what you call them is NSFW … (grin) …”
Lol, only when we’ve had a few too many Labatt Blues, eh?
Actually, nobody I know even drinks Blue, but it’s the one Canadian beer I always see everywhere in the States.
April 20th, 2007 at 11:39:14 pm
American too American.
May 6th, 2007 at 9:32:47 pm
I am proud that the flag was used again. Spider-Man is an American icon and I applaud Sam Raimi for including it in the 2nd and 3rd films. I thought the only reason he used it in the 1st was because of 9/11. Bryan Singer should be ashamed of himself by changing the Superman mantra of standing for truth justice and the American way. These days Superman stands for truth justice and all that stuff. Its the American way that made this country great. Everything that followed in the 60s and today… (as Borat would say), not so much. Since when has pariotism become such a bad thing?