Billy Packer hater that I am, I’m remiss in not blogging about the latest Packergate controversy. During an interview last Friday with PBS’s Charlie Rose, Packer accused Rose of “fagging out.” Here’s the clip:
The condemnations came fast and furious. Mjd wrote, “If you’re broadcasting the Final Four, and you’re the voice that accompanies the most watched college basketball game of the year, and you’ve been doing this for 33 years … I don’t think it’s asking much to keep the word ‘fag’ out of your mouth in public.” Deadspin mused, “If Packer really didn’t understand the term he was using, it’s probably not wise to allow a guy like that on television at all.” Sportable chimed in, “It’s hard to call Packer racist, homophobic, or sexist because it’s obvious that Packer hates everyone on Earth. … In other news, Tim Hardaway has announced that he’d love to assume Jim Nantz’s duties alongside Packer during next year’s NCAA Tournament.” Bloggers all over the college basketball blogosphere eagerly called for Packer’s firing.
Some, however, defended the old crank. Despite Boi From Troy’s inability to “find a non-offensive context for the term, ‘fagging out,’” Michael David Smith found just that:
I detest homophobia, and if a broadcaster went on the air and used the word “fag” as a homophobic slur, I’d find it offensive.
But that’s not what Billy Packer did. The word “fag” has multiple meanings, and when Packer told Charlie Rose, “you always fag out,” he wasn’t using the word as a homophobic slur. He was using it…to mean “exhaust or tire out.”
Awful Announcing isn’t buying it:
Ugh…okay. Here’s the thing….Yes, I understand what the term “fagging out” means. I get it….you tire out….like a cigarette burning out….fag is a British slang for cigarette. I get all of that. But why be that insensitive and use the phrase? It’s just so idiotic and ignorant to not pay attention to what you’re saying.
A Brazil nut was once known as a “N****r Toe”. Do we still call it that? Of course not….it’s an inflammatory term, and has no business in our dialect.
The Human Rights Campaign, a prominent gay-rights group, unsurprisingly agrees: “[E]very time someone uses the F Word, gay kids in high school die a little bit on the inside. … Billy Packer and the CBS Network should know better and must apologize for the hurt that this kind of remark causes.”
LeslieAnne Wade, vice president of communications for Sports, told Outsports, “I know he wasn’t meaning to be insensitive at all.” But she added, “While it is a term that is in the dictionary, it was still a poor choice of words. I’m confident that he would agree that it was a bad choice of words.”
Ms. Wade’s confidence, it turns out, was misplaced. On Thursday, the Philadelphia Inquirer reported:
CBS college basketball analyst Billy Packer said he wasn’t being insensitive or homophobic when he made a comment while being interviewed Friday from Atlanta on The Charlie Rose Show, which airs on PBS. …
“I said he fagged out on me and it had nothing to do with sexual connotation,” Packer said yesterday in a phone interview. “I got to know Charlie a number of years ago and have great admiration for his program and intellect. He is a big Dukie, and he has been talking a number of years about coming to the Final Four to be a runner.”
Dictionary.com defines fag out as meaning “to tire or weary by labor; exhaust.”
Which is what Packer said he meant.
“The term has nothing to do with sexuality,” Packer said. “I think he is the most eligible bachelor. It’s about a guy too lazy to get the work.” …
What Packer is probably most guilty of is being out of touch, which isn’t the first time this charge has been leveled. In 1996 he referred to then-Georgetown point guard (now former 76er) Allen Iverson as a “tough monkey.” Packer himself said he is not a politically correct person. …
And despite this latest controversy, he insists that he did nothing wrong. Packer said the expression comes out of the word fatigue.
“I can assure you I will use that phrase again and I won’t think twice about it,” he said. “My meaning is genuine.”
That last remark had even some of Packer’s defenders, like the above-quoted Michael David Smith, backtracking:
I initially defended Packer, but I have a harder time doing that now. Packer’s defiance runs in stark contrast to what a CBS spokeswoman said (”I’m confident that he would agree that it was a bad choice of words.”) And by saying he has great respect for Charlie Rose, is he implying that he would feel free to call someone a “fag” if he didn’t have great respect for him?
And Packer’s critics are even more up in arms: “No Billy your meaning was/is not genuine. If your meaning was genuine you would have either A) Not used a derogatory word no matter what the connotation was. B) Apologized if there was confusion/harm, and explained the true meaning of the term.”
So, where do I come down on all this? I’m of at least two minds on it… possibly three or four. On the one hand, I’m a strong believer in gay rights and a strong opponent of discrimination and bigotry, and as such, I have no love for people who use the word “fag” offensively. On the other hand, I’m also a strong opponent of political correctness run amok, and as such, I hate it when people get in trouble for such non-offenses as saying the word “niggardly” or using the expression “to call a spade a spade,” where there is absolutely no racist intent on the part of the speaker, nor any actual offensive content to the words spoken, only a misunderstanding whereby the listener believes — incorrectly — that something offensive has been said.
On the other other hand, isn’t there a point where it would be wiser to stop using an antiquated colloquialism that’s uncomfortably similar to a far more commonly used slur? It’s different when we’re talking about an actual word, like “niggardly,” or an expression that’s commonly used, like “call a spade a spade.” But does it make any sense to resurrect an outdated expression that nobody even uses any more, just as a matter of anti-PC principle, when it would be easier and less painful to just let it die?
On top of all that, and ultimately eclipsing all principled arguments, is the fact that I hate Billy Packer. Hate, hate, hate. I think he is a blight on the landscape of college basketball, and even if I thought he was getting in trouble for no good reason, the most I would do is shed a single tear for him while playing the CBS Sports theme song on the world’s smallest violin. There are about a thousand reasons why Billy Packer should have been fired long ago, so really, I would love to see him fired for this, whether that’s technically justifiable or not, just because it would mean he’d be gone — good riddance! — and replaced by a Final Four analyst who, you know, doesn’t suck. As a Deadspin commenter, quoted by Charles Rich, aptly put it: “Firing Billy Packer for a very un-PC statement is like putting Al Capone behind bars for tax evasion. Not the worst thing he’s ever done but we’ll take it!”
April 6th, 2007 at 2:55:29 pm
Fuc% Billy Packer. The guy is a total douchebag and alllllllways has to create some sort of controversy around March Madness to show that he is still relevant.
April 6th, 2007 at 3:04:51 pm
Can I still say Pussying out? Because that’s what this article makes me think.
A nigger toe is a racist term for a brazil nut because whitey use to think brazil nuts look like a black persons toe. “Fagging out” doesn’t refer to a gay man falling asleep during butt sex, it’s a reference to cigarettes burning out.
Is this another dirty trick from the republicans to distract Americans from the desperate need for suburban communities to rename Easter Egg Hunts, “Spring Holliday Egg Hunts” to protect those religiously excluded from participating in them?
What’s next, blaming Rosie O’Donnel for the increase in insurgent attacks in Iraq!!?!
April 6th, 2007 at 3:08:35 pm
I largely agree with your second- and third-to-last paragraphs, so I have mixed feelings about the appropriateness of what Packer said. But I also have to other acid tests: Did the target find it offensive? I haven’t seen anything official come from Charlie Rose, but all indications are that he was not offended and he was the target of the term. Second, who are the ones throwing a hissyfit about it? Are they reasonable people, or do they have an agenda? By and large, it seems the people calling for Packer’s head are driven by an agenda — either from a PC lefty liberal instinct (e.g. Human Rights Campaign) or from an anti-Billy Packer instinct due to his unpopularity among many college basketball fans. Weighing the latter, I lean towards defending Packer here because it’s a legitimate phrase even if it’s a bit old-fashioned, and Packer intended no offense and none was taken by Rose. Given that the controversy is largely driven by those with an agenda, my position in defense of Packer is reinforced. Finally, I am all for recapturing the English language by using words properly, and when terms like “niggardly” and “fag out” spark howls of protest, that to me says we should use those terms more, and appropriately, to recapture their original meanings and not allow the English language to get twisted by those with a political agenda.
April 6th, 2007 at 3:14:55 pm
respect to B. Loy for his honesty in saying he’d be cool with Packer being fired for the wrong reason. I wanted to criticize but then realized I feel the same way about Mussberger.
April 6th, 2007 at 4:39:19 pm
“Finally, I am all for recapturing the English language by using words properly, and when terms like “niggardly†and “fag out†spark howls of protest, that to me says we should use those terms more, and appropriately, to recapture their original meanings and not allow the English language to get twisted by those with a political agenda.” - an Andrew come to judgment !
Ask a lot of the PC folk what “Republican” means to them, and you will find that it is an active expression of fully-functional and intentional hate speech in *their* minds and yet is fully acceptable to them …
April 6th, 2007 at 4:48:09 pm
Andrew, that’s a ridiculous criteria–whether the target was actually offended? So if I called one of my roommates the N-word in front of my other, black roommate, and the first roommate wasn’t offended, it would be okay? Billy Packer is a very public figure who said this on a public TV show on a channel that is watched by dozens of people. If he weren’t a complete sociopath, he would understand that, whether or not he meant to, he offended large groups of people, and would just agree not to say the word anymore. It’s not like that’s a terrible burden on him.
April 6th, 2007 at 5:02:27 pm
Is there anyone out there that actually believes Billy Packer didn’t realize the association that people unfamiliar with the term “fag out” would draw? Please! He’s clearly a reasonably intelligent man who is also well familiar with English colloquialisms such that he is well aware of the hurt and marginalization associated with the word “fag”. He’s just too selfish to care that others would be bothered by it. He is a belligerent asshole who does not heed the advice or concerns of others. I wouldn’t be surprised if he deliberately used the term simply to piss people off so that he could then prop himself up on a pedastal of self-righteousness. Seriously, I hate this man more and more every day.
April 6th, 2007 at 5:31:19 pm
a public TV show on a channel that is watched by dozens of people
Heh.
April 6th, 2007 at 5:39:54 pm
Few seem to recall that in the 1960’s it was ordinary midwestern English to say,
“I’m fagged out” and mean “I’m worn out and tired.” The modern meaning of “fag” took over sometime on the 1970’s and wiped out the utility of the first meaning, just like no one can say “gay” anymore except in reference to homosexuals. I can understand how an old coot like Packer could say fag out and have a non-gay meaning.
April 6th, 2007 at 6:21:25 pm
Good point. I told my co-workers today how gay I was because it was friday and that after I smoke a couple fags at lunch, I’d be starting my weekend off with a bang. They looked at me like I had two heads.
Oh wait, I do.
April 6th, 2007 at 6:50:38 pm
Packer can be incompetent and annoying and keep his job. But say “fag” and you are gone.
It was poor decision-making on his part. But hopefully the asshole will lose his job over it.
April 6th, 2007 at 7:03:15 pm
I’ll be all for the firing of Packer as soon as Rosie gets canned for continually (and intentionally and unambiguously) accusing the U.S. Government of murdering 3,000 innocent Americans without offering any proof whatsoever.
As long as one obnoxious pig is allowed to shield itself with the first amendment, you can’t deny the other the same privelege.
April 6th, 2007 at 7:14:30 pm
Wobbly H:
he would understand that, whether or not he meant to, he offended large groups of people,
You offend large groups of people every time you post, but that never stops you……
April 6th, 2007 at 7:17:13 pm
Umm… Timugen? The First Amendment doesn’t “shield” anyone from being fired by their employer, unless that employer is a state actor.
Now, the underlying principles that animate the First Amendment — freedom from censorship of any kind, a desire to have a free-wheeling marketplace of ideas, etc. — can certainly come into play in private transactions not involving a state actor, especially when a large corporation with a disproportionate amount of power is involved.
But the First Amendment, per se, has no relevance here, unless the federal government bought CBS and I missed the memo. :)
P.S. Yeah, Rosie sucks.
April 6th, 2007 at 7:41:45 pm
So if I called one of my roommates the N-word in front of my other, black roommate, and the first roommate wasn’t offended, it would be okay?
If you are using a well-known slur to a friend, and he happens to not be offended by it, then it’s no big deal. However if there is an audience and someone in that audience hears the slur, then by definition they are targeted as well. Thus, in your example, calling your friend “nigger” in front of your black roommate would be unacceptable — with the highly probable assumption that your black roommate would find the use of the word “nigger” in that context to be insulting.
Patrick, I think you give Billy Packer far too much credit. Clearly the old man is a product of his time, which is why he is completely biased against mid-majors and is the whore of the ACC and SEC. I draw the opposite conclusion as you and figure that BP probably had very little idea just how commonly used the word “fag” is as a slur against gay people. I’m sure he was aware of the word “fag” being used in that manner, but I strongly suspect he had no idea the new meaning of “fag” had overtaken the old meaning of “fag” so completely.
April 6th, 2007 at 7:50:09 pm
Did you know he has done EVERY final four game since 1976??? Amazing as much as I hate him…
April 6th, 2007 at 8:26:49 pm
Gary: Here’s something offensive: You remind me of the protaganist of Sideways. Perhaps with a bit of the Matthew Broderick character in Election mixed in.
Andrew, it seems like your comments proved my point. If you set out the rule that an audience is necessarily the target of comments, then aren’t the people who saw the comment by Packer the audience? I guess you could say that indirect audiences do not count, but it seems like we are splitting hairs at this point.
I think your stronger argument might be that Packer doesn’t know what the term actually means. In that case, he shouldn’t be so indignant, and just let the whole thing fade away. He wouldn’t even need to apologize, really–just say that he didn’t intend that meaning, and then choose a different word.
Either way, I guess I’m a little biased against him myself, and attribute some of the same motives to him that Patrick mentioned.
April 6th, 2007 at 8:51:27 pm
I’m very certain Billy Packard knows both connotations of the word “fag,” however I don’t see how anyone can beat the guy up without beating Charlie Rose over the head as well. If the PC people are calling for Packard’s dismissal, they should also call for Rose’s program to be cancelled because he didn’t flinch or raise any objection to Packard’s remark.
I’d love to see what those complaining would say and/or do if the song “Common People” were played on the radio. I’d like to see them try to boycott a commercial radio station for airing the line in the song that says, “Smoke some fags and play some pool.”
April 6th, 2007 at 9:15:57 pm
Billy’s a total jackass and I, like Brendan, would have no problem with him getting canned for the wrong reason (although, I’m sure he’d pop up somewhere else and be just as annoying).
However, I feel that there’s a HUGE overreaction to this comment. He didn’t call someone a “fag”, didn’t imply someone was a “fag”, and clearly had no intention of the phrase being taken that way.
April 6th, 2007 at 9:35:00 pm
I don’t disagree, Brett, but how does that explain his subsequent fuck-you to those who wanted him to apologize? If you inadvertently said something offensive, wouldn’t it be reasonable to apologize or, at the very least, agree not to say it anymore (failing that, refrain from promising to say it in the future).
April 6th, 2007 at 10:25:11 pm
Brendan,
I (believe it or not) understand the First Amendment. I suppose I was a bit sloppy in my presentation. I did not intend to imply that anyone’s employment should be protected; I just think that some people (e.g. Rosie) get one helluva lot more wiggle room from the pundits and the media in general under the “shield” of “free speech,” while others’ heads are served up on a platter.
April 6th, 2007 at 10:42:43 pm
Fair enough, Timugen, and I think you’re right that “free speech” is often brandished in inconsistent and hypocritical ways. I didn’t really think that you don’t know what the First Amendment means, I just feel obligated to call people out when they are sloppy with that particular bit of language, in part because I’ve been called out for it myself a few times. :)
April 6th, 2007 at 11:04:26 pm
Is the word “fruitcake” still ok to use? I tend to use it quite a bit and refer to all kinds of people. I don’t want to be un-PC and such.
April 6th, 2007 at 11:21:47 pm
Gary: Here’s something offensive: You remind me of the protaganist of Sideways. Perhaps with a bit of the Matthew Broderick character in Election mixed in.
That’s the best you can do? Frankly, I’m a little disappointed…..
April 6th, 2007 at 11:52:57 pm
“… He is a big Dukie,…”
Good grief! Doesn’t he ever learn his lesson? I don’t think Rose is a sh!thead. (After all, what else would a kid think after hearing that?) :-)
In the end, if Packer is fired, it will not be for what he said to start the controversy. It will be for his denial that he has a responsibility to be Politically Correct and his refusal to apologize. He should at least give a back-handed apology like, “I’m sorry if anyone is too stupid to understand I only meant Charlie Rose tired out.”
April 7th, 2007 at 12:21:36 am
Wait wait wait wait… when was it decided that we could no longer use the term “call a spade a spade” and why? Seriously, I didn’t get the memo… and I’m a liberal here, I should have gotten the memo… I’m supposed to get all the what’s PC memos…. Clearly the liberal talking points system has a long way to go before it rivals that vast right wing conspiracy… Come to think of it the vast right wing conspiracy was the last memo I got… perhaps I need to re-check my spam filters and allow a higher bullshit quotient.
April 7th, 2007 at 12:43:50 am
dcl,
Coming from a member of the “vast right-wing conspiracy:” absolutely brilliant. Thank you. ;)
April 7th, 2007 at 2:37:48 pm
An earlier generation hijacked the word queer as a pejorative against homosexuals. Homosexuals later hijacked gay as a more positive euphemism. Now, many young people are hijacking gay and using it as a pejorative. As in …Bill Packer is calling the game - that’s so gay!
And so it goes…
PS: I don’t like Billy Packer.
PPS: But he does provide a service by so many others look good.
April 7th, 2007 at 4:27:12 pm
I’m surprised you haven’t blogged about the Don Imus controversy too Brendan, given that in his case there was no meaning for what he meant other than insult and slur.
http://arizona-basketball.aolsportsblog.com/2007/04/06/whos-worse-don-imus-or-billy-packer/
April 7th, 2007 at 5:05:29 pm
“the jigaboos versus the wannabes”
Man that was hilarious!
April 7th, 2007 at 5:07:13 pm
Although Imus’ words were deliberately crude and offensive, it’s also clear that from a notoriety and humor standpoint, that was part of his intent from the get-go. Any apology from Imus would be empty — that’s like Chris Rock apologizing for using the word, “fuck”.
April 7th, 2007 at 5:49:18 pm
Except that Imus has, in fact, apologized. Don’t you read Drudge? :)
David, the reason I haven’t blogged about it because I don’t care about Imus, whereas hating Billy Packer is something of a pet obsession of mine. :)
April 7th, 2007 at 6:48:47 pm
Why am I not surprised, Andrew?
April 7th, 2007 at 7:53:41 pm
Imus apology was pathetic, he says it almost as an afterthough followed by a quick transition that i think was something like “and now the weather”. It was vague, it was impresona, and given that his comments were ACTUALLY offensive, completely inadequate. And sorry Andrew, using a swear word does not compare to calling people nappy headed ho’s.
April 7th, 2007 at 7:54:06 pm
What are you not surprised at, Wobbly?
April 8th, 2007 at 8:06:39 pm
Imus apologized, but I’m certain that his head will roll much sooner for his remarks than Packer’s because Imus is better known to the general public and because of whom the butt of his jokes were.
April 10th, 2007 at 12:22:40 pm
This is all crap. It’s people telling other people what they can say and what they can’t. It’s fascism. Being “fagged” or “fagging out” is and has always been associated with losing the means to carry on, either through loss of strength or of will. Now, because a “group” claims exclusive ownership of the term “fag,” they can claim any and all proper words that may derive from it.
The English language operates outside the realm of what any “group” demands that it ought to. If anyone misconstues what Mr. Packer meant by saying someone “fagged out,” it is not the fault of BP, but rather it’s the ignorance of the listener. If upon knowing the context of Packer’s comments they continue to demand that he be apologetic, the listener becomes despotic.
I’m so sick about about this “PC” garbage that I could scream until my lungs collapse. This what we can say and what we can’t garbage is destroying this country. It’s destroying our very language. Billy Packer should be appauded for standing his ground, because he is right.