Apparently feeling that the 23 delegates he won in 2004 are a sign of boundless potential, Dennis Kucinich announced today that he’ll run for president again in 2008. If nothing else, this guarantees that John Kerry won’t finish last among the “do-over” candidates.
In other news, here’s a funny CNN item regarding another possible ‘08 candidate — one who could actually, you know, win:
Speaking of Obama, for those (er, myself included) who may have missed it last night, here he is during the intro to Monday Night Football, before the Bears-Rams game…
Heh, again. Da Bears won, by the way. They’re 11-2, tied with the Chargers for best in the NFL.
“Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn, who finished third behind Smith and McFadden in the Heisman voting, made the second-team.”
HAHAHA So Mr supposed Most Outstanding Player in College Football finished 3rd in the Heisman and 2nd here, both times behind Troy Smith. Yep, he’s outstanding allright
I’m unsure how being second behind Troy Smith proves that he’s not outstanding. It’s not as if there can only be one outstanding quarterback in a given year.
Conquistador, you are soooo right! Over 3,200 yards throwing, 35 touchdowns to only 5 interceptions, 63.4% completion percentage, all while getting zero protection from his o-line, who allowed him to go down 30 times…Brady Quinn so TOTALLY sucks!!
On a different note: when did the world start drinking Obama Kool-Aid!? The man smiles and farts rainbows and the whole country loves him for it—what has he actually DONE except get elected in a practically uncontested senate race? He says how we need to bridge the gaps between the right and the left, and then he votes what? 97% of the time with the Democratic line? (I can’t remember the exact number, but I know it’s well over 90%) Non-partisan my ass
I understand strength of schedule arguments, but why does everyone adhere to the “Commender in Chief” line? Navy is 9-3 and Air Force almost beat Tennessee on the road.
According to CBS Sportsline (which I recognize is not authoritative), ND’s SOS is 36. OSU’s is 37. Arkansas’s SOS is 20. Not every team can play the most difficult schedule every year.
There are plenty of legitimate criticisms about Brady’s play this year, but the argument about the Commander in Chief trophy is ridiculous and weak.
Domer is correct, and Andrew is incorrect. This “commander in chief” thing is completely ridiculous, and just another example of how Notre Dame’s unique status in college football cuts both ways — yeah, Brady never would have been the preseason Heisman favorite if he played for virtually any other school, but he also wouldn’t have to deal with dumbass counterfactual arguments like this, which are based on nothing but anti-ND bias.
I don’t see anyone saying Troy Smith’s season is illegitimate because the Buckeyes played Northern Illinois, Bowling Green, Indiana, Illinois and Northwestern. Here’s a hint: when Cincinnati is the fourth-best team on your schedule, you didn’t play a very good schedule. The Buckeyes played the dregs of the Big Ten this year, while missing out on two of the conference’s five teams with winning records (Wisconsin and Purdue). That’s not their fault, of course, but it’s also not Notre Dame’s fault that Stanford and North Carolina were shitty this year — those games looked competitive when they were scheduled. Heck, for that matter, Air Force had a subpar year (3-5 in the Mountain West??) — their worst season since 1993, in fact. And of course, the Navy game is always on the schedule, for historical reasons that date back to World War II, so that’s just like a “conference” game in terms of the among of “blame” the Irish should get for it. Army? Yeah, that was pretty much destined to be a pushover game, a “tune-up” before USC… but it’s not like the braintrust in Columbus was anticipating a good game from Bowling Green or Northern Illinois, so I don’t think the Irish have anything to apologize for there.
For comparison’s sake… Ohio State played Texas out-of-conference, which is roughly equivalent to Notre Dame playing USC. Both teams played Michigan, Penn State and Michigan State. Beyond that, look at who they played:
OSU: Northern Illinois (7-5, 5-3 MAC), Cincinnati (7-5, 4-3 Big East), Iowa (6-6, 2-6 Big Ten), Bowling Green (4-8, 3-5 MAC), Indiana (5-7, 3-5 Big Ten), Minnesota (6-6, 3-5 Big Ten), Illinois (2-10, 1-7 Big Ten), Northwestern (4-8, 2-6 Big Ten)
ND: Georgia Tech (9-4, 7-1 ACC), Purdue (8-5, 5-3 Big Ten), Stanford (1-11, 1-8 Pac-10), UCLA (7-5, 5-4 Pac-10), Navy (9-3), North Carolina (3-9, 2-6 ACC), Air Force (4-8, 3-5 MWC), Army (3-9)
As you can see, both teams played some dogs. But Georgia Tech, UCLA, and arguably Purdue and Navy are better than anyone Ohio State played outside of the “big three” on their schedule (Texas, Michigan and Penn State).
Now, obviously, the difference between OSU and ND is that the Buckeyes won their two biggest games (over Texas and Michigan) whereas the Irish lost the equivalent games (to Michigan and USC) — and by blowout margins, to boot. That’s why OSU had a vastly better season, and why Troy Smith deserves the Heisman over Brady. I’m not disputing that; I’d have to be an idiot to do so. I’m just providing some empirical support for Domer’s point that “There are plenty of legitimate criticisms about Brady’s play this year, but the argument about the Commander in Chief trophy is ridiculous and weak.” Andrew, pick a better argument. In fact, pick an argument — the Commander in Chief thing isn’t an “argument” at all, it’s just a mindless, convenient yet substanceless swipe.
P.S. On second thought, “nothing but anti-ND bias” isn’t quite right. There’s another factor, too: selective memory / short attention span.
Notre Dame played a front-loaded schedule this year, with the first three games being against Georgia Tech, Penn State and Michigan, and all of the decent non-USC teams coming by the middle of October. The “commander in chief” teams, plus North Carolina, were all in late October and November, in the four weeks leading up to USC. So a lot of people conveniently forgot about all the good teams the Irish played earlier in the year.
On that note, if you think this year was bad, just wait until next year. Check out Notre Dame’s first eight games:
S 01 GEORGIA TECH
S 08 @ Penn State
S 15 @ Michigan
S 22 MICHIGAN ST.
S 29 @ Purdue
O 06 @ UCLA
O 13 BOSTON COLLEGE
O 20 SOUTHERN CAL
And, holy cow, I just noticed those are in consecutive weeks!! That’s eight consecutive weeks of games against teams that should all have at least a chance, every single one of them, of beating the Irish. A 5-3 start would be excellent, 4-4 respectable, given the team’s youth and inexperience. Off the top of my head, I would expect losses to Penn State, Michigan, UCLA and USC, with possibly one other mixed in somewhere. I hope I’m wrong, but man, that’s a brutal schedule to start the season.
But then? Look how they finish the season. First a bye week (to recover from the beating they take from USC, I guess), and then:
N 03 NAVY
N 10 AIR FORCE
N 17 DUKE
N 24 @ Stanford
You wanna bet that, by the end of the season, idiotic ND-bashers will be bitching about Notre Dame’s “weak schedule” again? Probably not Andrew, as the first eight games will make the argument totally untenable to anyone with a modicum of common sense, but I guarantee you the argument will be out there. Short attention spans are a real problem in this sport, as Michigan recently learned.
Speaking of Obama, has anybody here read his book yet? I’d like to learn more about him and was considering it as a self-gift for Christmas.
And Jay Leno had a funny line after Obama’s trip to New England. Obama seems to be gaining so much support that Hillary is starting to worry about a vast left-wing conspiracy. :-)
Perhaps you should spend less time reading blogs and more time availing yourself of the fine education that Notre Dame offers, since your reading skills are quite clearly in need of some help. I did not say that Brady Quinn as you put it, “so TOTALLY sucks”. I merely pointed out that his selection for the Maxwell trophy, supposedly given to the Most Outstanding Player in college football, is, well laughable at best. You can cite statistics, I can cite statistics from other quarterbacks as well, say JaMarcus Russel or that Kolb kid out of Houston, but here is the one which I think matters the most. 0-2. Thats Brady Quinns record against Michigan and USC this year. Clearly he is not the Most Outstanding. Good? Probably. Great? Perhaps. Most outstanding? I think not.
Conquistador, you denied that he “outstanding,” not that he was “most outstanding.” Your post is just above, you can’t really fudge on that to make thebeef seem like he is fighting a straw man. Also, “all right” is two words. Even people who make the mistake of spelling it as one use the almost-accepted “alright” form. Obviously, you were also saying he was not “most outstanding,” but you did go beyond that.
Conquistador, I hate to disagree with a fellow Trojan in a fight with fellow Domers, but beef and Anonymous are right… your post had an extremely mocking tone, starting with the words “HAHA” and ending with “Yep, he’s outstanding allright.” It’s totally appropriate for thebeef to respond as he did. And it would have been totally appropriate for you to respond with further mocking… that would just be regular old USC-ND trash talk at its best. But getting all defensive and accusing thebeef of having poor reading comprehension skills is just lame.
Well no s**t it was mocking, they treat Quinn boy as a GOD out there in South Bend, which i find entirely too hilarious. But really, you can point to the last part of my comment and possibly assume it was claiming i was saying he’s not outstanding at all, but that would also be ignoring the rest of my statement, you know this part:
“HAHAHA So Mr supposed Most Outstanding Player in College Football finished 3rd in the Heisman and 2nd here, both times behind Troy Smith. Yep, he’s outstanding allright”
Please, before you decide to criticize me further re-read the posts i have made above and tell me where i denied saying he wasn’t outstanding, you kind sirs will find that I in fact never did. I merely took issue with Senor thebeef implying that i said that Brady Quinn “TOTALLY sucks”. I never said such a thing at all. I do in fact openly admit that i don’t think he is oustanding, outstanding quarterbacks can win big games, but I also admit he doesn’t suck. So yes Anonymous I did go beyond saying he was “most outstanding”, yet not even close to what thebeef claimed in his reply. And while my accusations of reading inability my be “lame” as you put it Senor Loy, you may soon fall under that same advice. Certainly the domers can respond in kind to my mocking tone, it is far more entertaining if they do, but really, i never said he “TOTALLY sucks” now did I?
Dude, Brendan, the Commander in Chief argument is totally valid; the problem is you are viewing the reference through the wrong lens. By no means am I suggesting OSU had a tough schedule and ND didn’t; to me they were both weak schedules. The point I was making was, BQ padded his stats with the dregs of the schedule (54 of 74 — 73% — for 720 yards, 10 TDs, and 1 INT against defenses that have to deal with academy height and weight restrictions) while he was good-to-mediocre against good competition. Troy Smith, on the other hand, played his best games against his best opponents. To argue BQ was a more important or better QB or football player this season than Troy Smith is simply absurd.
This is an archived post. Comments are closed.
To leave a comment on a newer post, please visit the homepage.
December 12th, 2006 at 8:12:35 pm
Jarrett repeats as All-American. No ND players made the cut:
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Aj.3MkD38mbOgN2951TJjV4cvrYF?slug=ap-apall-americateambreakdown&prov=ap&type=lgns
December 12th, 2006 at 8:52:51 pm
“Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn, who finished third behind Smith and McFadden in the Heisman voting, made the second-team.”
HAHAHA So Mr supposed Most Outstanding Player in College Football finished 3rd in the Heisman and 2nd here, both times behind Troy Smith. Yep, he’s outstanding allright
December 12th, 2006 at 9:06:28 pm
I’m unsure how being second behind Troy Smith proves that he’s not outstanding. It’s not as if there can only be one outstanding quarterback in a given year.
December 12th, 2006 at 10:18:57 pm
Conquistador, you are soooo right! Over 3,200 yards throwing, 35 touchdowns to only 5 interceptions, 63.4% completion percentage, all while getting zero protection from his o-line, who allowed him to go down 30 times…Brady Quinn so TOTALLY sucks!!
On a different note: when did the world start drinking Obama Kool-Aid!? The man smiles and farts rainbows and the whole country loves him for it—what has he actually DONE except get elected in a practically uncontested senate race? He says how we need to bridge the gaps between the right and the left, and then he votes what? 97% of the time with the Democratic line? (I can’t remember the exact number, but I know it’s well over 90%) Non-partisan my ass
December 12th, 2006 at 10:52:57 pm
thebeef, I am somewhat confident I could post numbers like that if I was competing for the Commander-in-Chief trophy like Notre Dame.
Obama will not get elected president — not this cycle anyway.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:28:56 pm
I understand strength of schedule arguments, but why does everyone adhere to the “Commender in Chief” line? Navy is 9-3 and Air Force almost beat Tennessee on the road.
According to CBS Sportsline (which I recognize is not authoritative), ND’s SOS is 36. OSU’s is 37. Arkansas’s SOS is 20. Not every team can play the most difficult schedule every year.
There are plenty of legitimate criticisms about Brady’s play this year, but the argument about the Commander in Chief trophy is ridiculous and weak.
December 13th, 2006 at 12:04:25 am
Domer is correct, and Andrew is incorrect. This “commander in chief” thing is completely ridiculous, and just another example of how Notre Dame’s unique status in college football cuts both ways — yeah, Brady never would have been the preseason Heisman favorite if he played for virtually any other school, but he also wouldn’t have to deal with dumbass counterfactual arguments like this, which are based on nothing but anti-ND bias.
I don’t see anyone saying Troy Smith’s season is illegitimate because the Buckeyes played Northern Illinois, Bowling Green, Indiana, Illinois and Northwestern. Here’s a hint: when Cincinnati is the fourth-best team on your schedule, you didn’t play a very good schedule. The Buckeyes played the dregs of the Big Ten this year, while missing out on two of the conference’s five teams with winning records (Wisconsin and Purdue). That’s not their fault, of course, but it’s also not Notre Dame’s fault that Stanford and North Carolina were shitty this year — those games looked competitive when they were scheduled. Heck, for that matter, Air Force had a subpar year (3-5 in the Mountain West??) — their worst season since 1993, in fact. And of course, the Navy game is always on the schedule, for historical reasons that date back to World War II, so that’s just like a “conference” game in terms of the among of “blame” the Irish should get for it. Army? Yeah, that was pretty much destined to be a pushover game, a “tune-up” before USC… but it’s not like the braintrust in Columbus was anticipating a good game from Bowling Green or Northern Illinois, so I don’t think the Irish have anything to apologize for there.
For comparison’s sake… Ohio State played Texas out-of-conference, which is roughly equivalent to Notre Dame playing USC. Both teams played Michigan, Penn State and Michigan State. Beyond that, look at who they played:
OSU: Northern Illinois (7-5, 5-3 MAC), Cincinnati (7-5, 4-3 Big East), Iowa (6-6, 2-6 Big Ten), Bowling Green (4-8, 3-5 MAC), Indiana (5-7, 3-5 Big Ten), Minnesota (6-6, 3-5 Big Ten), Illinois (2-10, 1-7 Big Ten), Northwestern (4-8, 2-6 Big Ten)
ND: Georgia Tech (9-4, 7-1 ACC), Purdue (8-5, 5-3 Big Ten), Stanford (1-11, 1-8 Pac-10), UCLA (7-5, 5-4 Pac-10), Navy (9-3), North Carolina (3-9, 2-6 ACC), Air Force (4-8, 3-5 MWC), Army (3-9)
As you can see, both teams played some dogs. But Georgia Tech, UCLA, and arguably Purdue and Navy are better than anyone Ohio State played outside of the “big three” on their schedule (Texas, Michigan and Penn State).
Now, obviously, the difference between OSU and ND is that the Buckeyes won their two biggest games (over Texas and Michigan) whereas the Irish lost the equivalent games (to Michigan and USC) — and by blowout margins, to boot. That’s why OSU had a vastly better season, and why Troy Smith deserves the Heisman over Brady. I’m not disputing that; I’d have to be an idiot to do so. I’m just providing some empirical support for Domer’s point that “There are plenty of legitimate criticisms about Brady’s play this year, but the argument about the Commander in Chief trophy is ridiculous and weak.” Andrew, pick a better argument. In fact, pick an argument — the Commander in Chief thing isn’t an “argument” at all, it’s just a mindless, convenient yet substanceless swipe.
December 13th, 2006 at 12:21:07 am
P.S. On second thought, “nothing but anti-ND bias” isn’t quite right. There’s another factor, too: selective memory / short attention span.
Notre Dame played a front-loaded schedule this year, with the first three games being against Georgia Tech, Penn State and Michigan, and all of the decent non-USC teams coming by the middle of October. The “commander in chief” teams, plus North Carolina, were all in late October and November, in the four weeks leading up to USC. So a lot of people conveniently forgot about all the good teams the Irish played earlier in the year.
On that note, if you think this year was bad, just wait until next year. Check out Notre Dame’s first eight games:
S 01 GEORGIA TECH
S 08 @ Penn State
S 15 @ Michigan
S 22 MICHIGAN ST.
S 29 @ Purdue
O 06 @ UCLA
O 13 BOSTON COLLEGE
O 20 SOUTHERN CAL
And, holy cow, I just noticed those are in consecutive weeks!! That’s eight consecutive weeks of games against teams that should all have at least a chance, every single one of them, of beating the Irish. A 5-3 start would be excellent, 4-4 respectable, given the team’s youth and inexperience. Off the top of my head, I would expect losses to Penn State, Michigan, UCLA and USC, with possibly one other mixed in somewhere. I hope I’m wrong, but man, that’s a brutal schedule to start the season.
But then? Look how they finish the season. First a bye week (to recover from the beating they take from USC, I guess), and then:
N 03 NAVY
N 10 AIR FORCE
N 17 DUKE
N 24 @ Stanford
You wanna bet that, by the end of the season, idiotic ND-bashers will be bitching about Notre Dame’s “weak schedule” again? Probably not Andrew, as the first eight games will make the argument totally untenable to anyone with a modicum of common sense, but I guarantee you the argument will be out there. Short attention spans are a real problem in this sport, as Michigan recently learned.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:43:59 am
Speaking of Obama, has anybody here read his book yet? I’d like to learn more about him and was considering it as a self-gift for Christmas.
And Jay Leno had a funny line after Obama’s trip to New England. Obama seems to be gaining so much support that Hillary is starting to worry about a vast left-wing conspiracy. :-)
December 13th, 2006 at 4:53:02 pm
Senor thebeef,
Perhaps you should spend less time reading blogs and more time availing yourself of the fine education that Notre Dame offers, since your reading skills are quite clearly in need of some help. I did not say that Brady Quinn as you put it, “so TOTALLY sucks”. I merely pointed out that his selection for the Maxwell trophy, supposedly given to the Most Outstanding Player in college football, is, well laughable at best. You can cite statistics, I can cite statistics from other quarterbacks as well, say JaMarcus Russel or that Kolb kid out of Houston, but here is the one which I think matters the most. 0-2. Thats Brady Quinns record against Michigan and USC this year. Clearly he is not the Most Outstanding. Good? Probably. Great? Perhaps. Most outstanding? I think not.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:27:31 pm
Conquistador, you denied that he “outstanding,” not that he was “most outstanding.” Your post is just above, you can’t really fudge on that to make thebeef seem like he is fighting a straw man. Also, “all right” is two words. Even people who make the mistake of spelling it as one use the almost-accepted “alright” form. Obviously, you were also saying he was not “most outstanding,” but you did go beyond that.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:32:08 pm
Conquistador, I hate to disagree with a fellow Trojan in a fight with fellow Domers, but beef and Anonymous are right… your post had an extremely mocking tone, starting with the words “HAHA” and ending with “Yep, he’s outstanding allright.” It’s totally appropriate for thebeef to respond as he did. And it would have been totally appropriate for you to respond with further mocking… that would just be regular old USC-ND trash talk at its best. But getting all defensive and accusing thebeef of having poor reading comprehension skills is just lame.
December 13th, 2006 at 9:18:04 pm
Well no s**t it was mocking, they treat Quinn boy as a GOD out there in South Bend, which i find entirely too hilarious. But really, you can point to the last part of my comment and possibly assume it was claiming i was saying he’s not outstanding at all, but that would also be ignoring the rest of my statement, you know this part:
“HAHAHA So Mr supposed Most Outstanding Player in College Football finished 3rd in the Heisman and 2nd here, both times behind Troy Smith. Yep, he’s outstanding allright”
Please, before you decide to criticize me further re-read the posts i have made above and tell me where i denied saying he wasn’t outstanding, you kind sirs will find that I in fact never did. I merely took issue with Senor thebeef implying that i said that Brady Quinn “TOTALLY sucks”. I never said such a thing at all. I do in fact openly admit that i don’t think he is oustanding, outstanding quarterbacks can win big games, but I also admit he doesn’t suck. So yes Anonymous I did go beyond saying he was “most outstanding”, yet not even close to what thebeef claimed in his reply. And while my accusations of reading inability my be “lame” as you put it Senor Loy, you may soon fall under that same advice. Certainly the domers can respond in kind to my mocking tone, it is far more entertaining if they do, but really, i never said he “TOTALLY sucks” now did I?
December 13th, 2006 at 10:46:54 pm
Dude, Brendan, the Commander in Chief argument is totally valid; the problem is you are viewing the reference through the wrong lens. By no means am I suggesting OSU had a tough schedule and ND didn’t; to me they were both weak schedules. The point I was making was, BQ padded his stats with the dregs of the schedule (54 of 74 — 73% — for 720 yards, 10 TDs, and 1 INT against defenses that have to deal with academy height and weight restrictions) while he was good-to-mediocre against good competition. Troy Smith, on the other hand, played his best games against his best opponents. To argue BQ was a more important or better QB or football player this season than Troy Smith is simply absurd.