I just thought of a scenario where Notre Dame gets left out of the BCS!
Okay, suppose #4 LSU and #5 Virginia Tech both lose their conference championship games on Saturday. They drop in the BCS, and Ohio State, currently #6, rises to #4. Under the “Kansas State rule” — the same rule that got USC into the BCS three years ago, and that pushed Texas ahead of Cal for the Rose Bowl last year — the Buckeyes, as a non-champion from a BCS conference, would now be guaranteed an at-large spot (unless there is another non-champion in the #3 spot — more on that shortly).
Now suppose #1 USC and #2 Texas also lose. Remember that USC, by virtue of tiebreakers, is the Pac-10 champion despite losing to UCLA. But Texas, having lost the conference title game to Colorado, is not the Big 12 champion, and thus is fighting for an “at-large” spot, just like Ohio State… and Notre Dame.
Penn State, currently #3, jumps to #1, leaving the Trojans (11-1), Longhorns (11-1) and Buckeyes (9-2) to fight it out for the #2 spot and a trip to the Rose Bowl.
If USC gets the #2 spot, Notre Dame has no problems, because both of the teams playing in the national title game are conference champions, and only one team can receive an automatic at-large bid under the “Kansas State rule.” If Texas is #3 and Ohio State is #4, the Longhorns get the automatic bid, and Ohio State is just an “optional” at-large team, which means in practical terms that Notre Dame gets in ahead of them. (The mirror image would happen — with the same result for Notre Dame — if Ohio State is #3 and Texas is #4, but I think that’s unlikely.) The Orange Bowl gets first pick, and is free to choose Notre Dame. The Fiesta Bowl and Sugar Bowl are left to divvy up the scraps (Texas and West Virginia).
But now suppose Texas gets the #2 spot, with USC #3 and Ohio State #4 (or vice versa — it doesn’t matter, so long as Texas is in the top 2 and Ohio State is in the top 4). The eight BCS bowl slots are now filled: there are six conference champions, plus two at-large teams: Texas in the national title game, and Ohio State as an automatic at-large qualifier. There are no more at-large spots available — no room at the inn! Notre Dame is left out of the BCS!
(The same holds true if you reverse the Buckeyes and Longhorns — Ohio State gets the #2 spot and Texas is either #3 or #4 — but that seems far less likely. Similarly, it also holds true if USC beats UCLA and stays at #1, while Texas, despite losing to Colorado, finishes ahead of Penn State for #2, leaving the Nittany Lions at #3 and Ohio State at #4. But I don’t think Texas would stay ahead of Penn State after losing to Colorado, so USC probably needs to lose — and fall to #3 or lower — for this “Notre Dame gets left out” scenario to happen.)
The BCS rules are clear. There’s a “Notre Dame exception” the “top six” rule (which applies to non-BCS teams, like Utah last year), but there is no “Notre Dame exception” to the “top four” rule (the “Kansas State rule”), the one that would give Ohio State the final at-large spot under this scenario. See for yourself; the “Kansas State rule” is explained at #4 and #5:
(1) Any at-large team ranked No. 1 or No. 2 in the final BCS standings will play in the BCS national championship game. If both the No. 1 and No. 2 teams in the BCS standings are at-large teams, those teams will play in the national championship game.(2) Any team from an independent institution, or Conference USA, the Mid-American, Mountain West, Sun Belt, or Western Athletic Conferences, which is ranked third through sixth in the final BCS standings, shall qualify for a berth in one of the BCS games unless more than two teams meet this criterion. If one team other than Notre Dame qualifies for selection under this provision, Notre Dame shall also qualify for automatic at-large selection provided it is ranked in the top 10 in the final BCS standings or has won at least nine games, not including exempted games. If two or more teams other than Notre Dame meet this criterion, Notre Dame shall also qualify for the at-large pool provided it is ranked in the top 10 of the final BCS standings or has won at least nine games, not including exempt contests.
(3) Should the number of teams satisfying the criterion of (2) above exceed the number of available at-large slots, the bowls shall fill the available at-large slots by selecting from among those teams that have met the requirements of (2) above.
(4) If any at-large slots remain unfilled after application of the procedures in (1), (2), and (3) above and the team ranked third in the BCS standings is an at-large team, then the team ranked third in the BCS standings shall automatically fill one at-large slot and play in a BCS bowl.
(5) If any at-large slots remain unfilled after application of the procedures in (1), (2), (3), and (4) above and no at-large team qualifies for automatic selection under (4) above and the team ranked fourth in the BCS standings is an at-large team, then the team ranked fourth in the final BCS standings will automatically fill one at-large slot and will play in one of the BCS bowls.
So there you have it. Notre Dame is left out!
Admittedly, this is all extremely unlikely to happen, since it would require four major upsets on Saturday, two of them absolutely colossal (Colorado over Texas and UCLA over USC). But… what if it does? Where would the Irish, barred from the BCS, go?
To the Gator Bowl, right? Wrong! The Gator Bowl has already invited Louisville!
Okay, then, how about the Insight Bowl? Nope! They’ve already invited Rutgers!
The only bowl with a Big East/Notre Dame tie-in that hasn’t extended a formal invitation yet is the Meineke Car Care Bowl (formerly the Continental Tire Bowl), which is expected to invite either UConn (if the Huskies beat Louisville on Saturday) or South Florida (otherwise). But one supposes they could be “persuaded” to take Notre Dame instead, if the Irish became available. :)
Is it really possible that, if this (again, admittedly extremely unlikely) scenario plays out, Notre Dame could end up playing the #4 or #5 ACC team in Charlotte?!? Or, if not, perhaps one of the bowls whose affiliated conferences don’t have enough bowl-eligible teams, like the Emerald or Music City bowls, could try and snatch up the Irish? (The Emerald, formerly known as the San Francisco Bowl, used to be affiliated with the Big East, but now it’s affiliated with Pac-10 and Mountain West… but thanks to ND’s win over Stanford, there aren’t enough bowl-eligible Pac-10 teams.)
It seems impossible that the 9-2 Irish could conceiveably be headed to such a crappy bowl as the Meineke Car Care, Emerald or Music City, but I can’t see any way around it, unless the Gator Bowl’s offer to Louisville can be rescinded. [Quick, somebody call Professor Kaveny! -ed.]
On the other hand, perhaps the Cotton Bowl — which is supposed to match up a Big 12 team against an SEC team, but which has to wait until after Saturday’s games to extend its invitations anyway — would throw caution (and contracts) to the wind and make a play for Notre Dame, with which it has a historical, if no longer a contractual, relationship. That would make Brooke happy, and it would certainly be better than the Meineke Car Care Bowl!
Anyway, I really have no idea what would actually happen in this ridiculous scenario, and it’s almost certain that we’ll never find out. But it sure is fun to think about. :)
UPDATE: There’s another, slightly less crazy way this could happen. It still requires USC, LSU and Virginia Tech to lose, but not Texas. (Hey, I said slightly less crazy.)
Okay, so USC loses, which means the Trojans, as Pac-10 champions, automatically go to the Fiesta Bowl. Texas is #1, and plays #2 Penn State in the Rose Bowl. USC and Ohio State are #3 and #4, in whatever order. Again, under the “Kansas State rule,” Ohio State is guaranteed an at-large bid. This time, though, both of the title-game participants are conference champions, so there is still one other available, “open” at-large bid, which any team in the BCS Top 12 can fill.
The Fiesta Bowl, picking an opponent for USC, gets to choose from among the entire range of available at-large teams. They could choose Notre Dame, and as I discussed below, I think they probably would. But what if they decide they don’t want an Irish-Trojans rematch? Bowl rematches are usually bad, after all. So now they are left to choose between Ohio State, Auburn and the other available teams. If they pick the Buckeyes, there’s no problem for Notre Dame — the Orange Bowl can proceed to snap up the Irish. But what if the Fiesta Bowl doesn’t like a Trojans-Buckeyes matchup either? What if they want to match up USC against Auburn, to “settle the score” from 2004? Or what if they prefer a USC-Miami showdown, the Team of the ’90s against the Team of the ’00s? That would leave the Orange Bowl in a bind; it would be forced to choose either West Virginia (guaranteed a spot because it’s the Big East champ) or Ohio State (guaranteed a spot because of the “Kansas State rule”). Notre Dame would not be an option, and the Irish would be left out of the BCS.
I said this scenario is “less crazy,” but I suppose it’s probably also “less likely” because, unlike the everybody-loses scenario, it wouldn’t all happen automatically; it would require an affirmative decision by the Fiesta Bowl selection committee that I think they’d be disinclined to make anyway, and even if they were tempted, I strongly suspect that such a decision would never happen because there would be an enormous amount of behind-the-scenes pressure and deal-making, if necessary, to avoid this situation. And anyway, it doesn’t seem like it would take that much convincing to get the Fiesta Bowl to stage a USC-ND or USC-OSU bowl. Neither of those matchups are exactly unattractive.
IMPORTANT UPDATE: I just realized something. If both LSU and Virginia Tech lose, they will probably both fall behind Notre Dame — which is currently #8 in the BCS standings. That would raise Notre Dame up to #6… and the “top 6″ rule gets applied before the “top 4″ (”Kansas State”) rule. So the Irish would automatically qualify ahead of Ohio State!
In order for the Irish to get squeezed out of the BCS, both LSU and Virginia Tech must lose, but at least one of them must stay ahead of Notre Dame in the BCS rankings.
That seems unlikely, given Notre Dame’s favored status in the human polls among two-loss teams. (Only Ohio State is ranked higher.) The most likely possibility would be for LSU, currently ranked #3 in one human poll and #4 in the other, to lose a very close game to Georgia, which is itself ranked #12 and #13 in the polls (unlike Virginia Tech’s opponent, Florida State, which is unranked). LSU, coming off this close loss to a quality team, might perhaps only drop to #6 or #7 — either ahead of Notre Dame, or just barely behind the Irish. The computers might then take over; they don’t like the Irish much, and they might help LSU cling to the #6 spot in the BCS, just ahead of #7 Notre Dame.
But I doubt it. In all likelihood, if LSU and Virginia Tech lose, Notre Dame would be ranked #6 in the BCS, and they would get an “automatic at-large bid” ahead of even a #3 or #4 Ohio State.
IMPORTANT UPDATE #2: No wait, I’m right! I just had another brainstorm. UCLA is currently ranked #11 in the polls and #12 in the BCS. But if they beat USC, obviously they will move up! Indeed, they will probably move ahead of Notre Dame in the polls, won’t they? A one-loss team that beat USC should be ranked ahead of a two-loss team that almost beat USC, right? It’s hard to predict exactly what would happen, but bottom line, I bet UCLA moves up to #5 or #6 in the BCS, leaving Notre Dame at #7 — and out of luck. My crazy wacko scenario lives! :)
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November 30th, 2005 at 2:34:26 am
If my aunt had a crank she would be my uncle.
November 30th, 2005 at 3:58:02 am
or the BCS could do the right thing and Ohio State and Oregon would get chosen. In fact why doesn’t the Pac-10 just play nice and let Notre Dame go to the Holiday Bowl.
November 30th, 2005 at 3:59:24 am
USC, barring getting blown out by UCLA, is going to the Rose Bowl. I seriously doubt as back to back national champs, conference champions with 1 loss to a top 10-team and having the most talented team in the country would not be viewed as the best 1-loss team in the eyes of voters. I already think the majority of the computers would have them as the No. 2 team even with 1 loss.
Now I doubt Texas would get that same luxury since they are playing a mediocare, unranked Colorado team and a loss would mean no conference title. Plus they don’t have the same recent history as ‘SC as far as the back to back national title and three of the past four heisman winners.
November 30th, 2005 at 4:09:25 am
Whats interesting is that on the off chance that UCLA beats USC it would easily be enough to move the Bruins into the top 10. That would mean that the Pac-10 would have 3 top 10 teams. Not bad for a “weak” conference.
November 30th, 2005 at 4:23:47 am
or the BCS could do the right thing and Ohio State and Oregon would get chosen
The BCS would have no such option, since Oregon’s at-large spot would be taken by Texas.
I already think the majority of the computers would have [USC] as the No. 2 team even with 1 loss.
The majority of computers have them as the No. 2 team NOW — behind Texas. And the computers love Penn State, so I seriously doubt USC would be higher than #3 if they lost and Texas won. The Colley Matrix, for one, confirms this (enter “UCLA beats USC” into the “play God” page). Indeed, Virginia Tech moves ahead of USC in the Colley Matrix too, if they beat FSU and the Trojans lose to the Bruins. Of course, that doesn’t work with my “ND gets left out” scenario, but it’s interesting to note anyway.
As for the pollsters, you may well be right. I think they would bump USC down one spot, though — behind Penn State — but perhaps not more than that. In which case my scenario can’t happen because it’d be #1 Penn State, #2 USC, #3 Texas, #4 Ohio State, which means only Texas gets the automatic spot; Notre Dame gets in ahead of Ohio State (in response to which there would be much gnashing of teeth in the Kreutz household, I don’t doubt).
November 30th, 2005 at 7:47:20 am
Brendan- go to bed!!!
November 30th, 2005 at 8:59:35 am
My crazy speculating friend at work has also come up with this scenario. He hates Notre Dame (figures they are overrated), and lives in Charolotte, and will be there over the holidays. In fact, it is possible that his alma matter, N.C. State, will end up playing Notre Dame - in what amounts to a home game for N.C. State. Now THAT’S crazyness!!!
November 30th, 2005 at 9:02:47 am
David,
The BCS is doing the “right” thing, from its point of view. Its whole purpose is to make gobs of money under the guise of the promotion of good sportsmanship. No one outside of the Oregon/Wash state area would care about Oregon going to a BCS bowl. In fact, in my estimation, only USC and UCLA have considerably large national fan bases. Whereas ND has the largest national fan base of all. Theres an old saying…something about money talking…
Not to mention that you can bag on ND until you are blue in the fingers and still not convince anyone that the ducks could beat the Irish head-to-head. (same applies to OSU)
When will you just flat out admit that ND is an above average team that no other team can take lightly? All ND haters have enjoyed the Davie and Ty eras, but that is all over now. ND will only get better in the coming years.
November 30th, 2005 at 10:38:16 am
Would someone please give David a tissue? The poor boy is beside himself.
Maybe Andrew can sing him a lullabye, whispering sweet assurances that a PAC-10 team will win the national championship
November 30th, 2005 at 11:15:02 am
Another thing we’ve discussed at work is that the Meinike Car Care Bowl (Car Car bowl? Almost wrote that.) hasn’t extended its invite yet. Why? I mean, USF would work either way, wouldn’t they? Whether they win or lose, they are 6-5, while UConn has to win to get to that mark. No one would begrudge the selection comittee for choosing now (well, except for Brendan and other UConn fans).
We figure it must be because the Car Car bowl (give me a ride in the car, car . . . ) thinks there might be a chance they could get ND, and they are holding off for the final standings and selections until they commit. Pulling a coup like that would be great for that bowl, and would make the Gator and Insight Bowls, the “better” bowls, get left out of the biggest non BCS bowl prize in a long time.
November 30th, 2005 at 11:30:13 am
nice analysis, interesting stuff
November 30th, 2005 at 12:59:35 pm
The Irish can go to the Cotton Bowl I believe. I believe last year I read that they have a Notre Dame clause but that clause was very unlikely to be invoked because the Gator Bowl would get first shot. From what I understand the Gator has already committed to U of L which would let the Irish go Cotton.
November 30th, 2005 at 1:10:32 pm
This post from Fanblogs, as well as this post from the Blue-Gray Sky and this article from BlueandGold.com suggest that there is no Cotton Bowl clause or tie-in this year, though there used to be a “loose affiliation” and there is talk of establishing something more concrete in the coming years.
If the Cotton Bowl were to happen, I think it would require a flurry of last-minute deal-making and contract-breaking. Of course, money can buy you anything. The question, it seems to me, is whether the money that it would take to get out of the relevant contract(s) would be worth it to the Cotton Bowl to get Notre Dame. Likewise for the Gator Bowl, to rescind its offer to Louisville.
November 30th, 2005 at 2:43:54 pm
Who is to say that a one-loss Texas doesn’t fall behind a one-loss Oregon and/or a one-loss fUCLA? I think we could very well see:
1) Penn State
2) USC
3) fUCLA (alt. Oregon)
4) Oregon (alt. Texas)
5) Texas (alt. fUCLA)
6) Ohio State
7) Notre Dame
8) Auburn
9) Georgia
9) LSU
10) Virginia Tech
The reason Oregon moves ahead of Texas is a loss to USC looks far better than a loss to Colorado, but then maybe fUCLA stays behind Texas because their loss was to Arizona.
Penn State plays USC in the Rose Bowl, West Virginia, Colorado, Florida State, Georgia, and fUCLA all have guaranteed spots. Notre Dame still gets in as a wild card over Ohio State, Oregon (can’t have three teams from one conference), Auburn, LSU, and Va Tech.
Alternatively, Oregon goes instead of fUCLA, and the BCS must choose between Texas and Notre Dame. That could happen, too.
This latter scenario still works if USC wins but the rest all lose:
1) USC
2) Penn State
3) Oregon
4) Texas
5) Ohio State
6) Notre Dame
7) Auburn
8) Georgia
9) LSU
10) Va Tech
11) West Virginia
12) fUCLA
USC and Penn State are in the Rose Bowl, and either Oregon or Texas goes to the BCS as the at-large team. Notre Dame most likely gets in over whichever of those two is left out, as well as over Ohio State.
On the other hand, if USC loses, maybe Notre Dame takes somewhat of a hit in the computer polls and drops a bit in the new BCS jumble. They wouldn’t drop out of the Top 12 though.
In summary, there’s almost no way Notre Dame gets left out unless one of the bowls snubs them (not likely).