Mayor Ray Nagin is getting a lot of positive press for berating federal officials yesterday, saying they need to “get their asses moving,” stop calling “goddamn press conferences,” and help his drowned city.
Well, bully for you, Mayor Nagin, way to talk tough. Unfortunately, you are the one who had the power to save the people of your city — before Katrina struck — and you failed miserably, as I noted at the time. And now, here is yet more evidence of your inexcusable negligence.
Because your plan (ha! like you had a plan) didn’t involve actually evacuating the people you “ordered” to evacuate — even though you could have evacuated them, or at least a whole hell of a lot of them, if you’d, well, had a plan — you’re out 205 buses, and perhaps 10,000 people.
“Too many cooks in the kitchen“? How about, “one too many idiots in the mayor’s office”?
Did I say it’s too early to play the blame game? I take that back. I blame you, Ray Nagin. Maybe not just you… but definitely, definitely you.
P.S. Take that “10,000″ figure with a grain of salt. As I noted before, “wild early estimates of death tolls, formulated when everything seems utterly bleak and based on guesswork rather than facts, are sometimes wrong.”
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Categories: Hurricane Katrina
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September 2nd, 2005 at 6:49:43 pm
Bravo, Brendan. When I awoke and heard Nagin’s comments on the radio, and then started reading all the anti-feds/anti-Bush backlash, I had the same irate reaction. You called it last weekend–NOLA officials failed miserably to prepare for this disaster, and now they’re reaping what they sowed.
September 2nd, 2005 at 6:50:55 pm
I am not saying the feds reacted in an exemplary fashion either, but how about telling everyone to evacuate to a certain spot (convention center, superdome), and not having any food or water there for them. Yeah, that’s a good plan.
September 2nd, 2005 at 6:59:28 pm
I don’t think the “anti-feds/anti-Bush backlash” and my anti-Nagin sentiments are mutually exclusive. It’s entirely possible that both screwed up, to one degree or another.
However, I will add this: the feds and Bush wouldn’t even have had the opportunity to save the lives they are now attempting (perhaps a bit ineptly/belatedly) to save, if Katrina had moved 20 miles to the west of where it did, and/or had not weakened at the last minute. Virtually all of the wandering refugees would be corpses already (they would have died on Monday), and there would have been nothing Bush and the feds could have done about it — in which case the whole thing would have been entirely on Nagin’s head, for failing to actually have a remotely adequate evacuation plan. It’s only thanks to pure dumb luck that he has the chance to sit around and blame the feds for not coming soon enough to save his city’s people. New Orleans would look like the Mississippi coastline, except underwater, if Katrina hadn’t made that right turn and mysteriously seen its western eyewall suddenly fall apart in the final hours before landfall.
So yeah. Nagin sucks.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:06:41 pm
Super bravo Brendan…
in hindsight this AP story from sunday is pretty chilling…
“…The mayor called the order unprecedented and said ,anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding…”,
http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:09:33 pm
I think that picture of the buses is unbelievable. 205 buses sitting in the fing water.
On another note, there have been statements made indicating the local government did not allow the red cross to enter new orleans and start the relief efforts for a significant period of time. also sheer nuttyness.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:12:40 pm
I’m getting sick and tired of reading your carping and Monday-morning quarterbacking on Nagin, Brendan. There will be blame enough to go around in the future. Please chill out and stop it for now, will you?
We’re talking about evacuating a city of almost 500,000 people and a metropolitan area of 1.3 MILLION. And the population includes a large number of poor and uneducated people, not to mention a substantial criminal element. Nagin, when he became mayor, inherited a massively corrupt bureaucracy, which he has worked hard to reform.
Can you name me a single mass evacuation of a major American city? One which was accomplished within 48 or 72 hours? We’ve been plagued by hurricanes before, and have become accustomed to them turning at the last moment. Georges a number of years ago comes to mind in particular, which turned unexpectedly just hours before it would have destroyed New Orleans. When faced with uncertain future events (and I’ve seen you acknowledge that, despite growing concerns, there was still uncertainty on the earlier dates you use to criticize the mayor), the mayor must also take into account the “crying wolf” phenomenon.
I know, personally, many very educated, very well-informed people who refused to evacuate until the last moment, and the only at the urging of children and grand-children. They had all the information, and chose not to act on it until the last moment. If the Mayor had evacuated 1.3 million people, and the hurricane had not hit, then nobody would have ever evacuated again. Hindsight, of course, is 20-20.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:20:53 pm
This is my first experience responding to a blog session, and I would have to agree, Nagin is inept. There are several states/counties with evacuation plans though none sit as far below sea level as New Orleans to my knowledge. Before retirement, my mother-in-law was in charge of the county school distict transportation office. Part of her responsibilities was coordinating with emergency management to get all the school buses in our county organized and ready with trained drivers (local residents) to take those who could not evacuate on thier own, out of the county when under mandatory evacuation. Perhaps Nagin, a new Mayor with little experience, should have used his resources and contacted other county governments for their plans so he could make his own plan for New Orleans. You are right, this is on his head and the feds heads. It goes to show how important a plan really is. I am sorry to all those who have lost their lives and those of loved ones due to the incompetence of our elected “leaders.”
I know I have learned from this. Make MY plan as I can only count on myself.
When Andersen Cooper said he “was ashamed” I couldn’t agree more. This lack of preparation is a shameful tragedy that continues into it’s 5th night.
Once this clears, if ever, I hope we as Americans seriously reevaluate government.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:21:44 pm
There is blame to be assigned to all the government officials in this as well as those citizens who could have left but didn’t. Rescue efforts are being spent on them which takes away from the efforts that could have been spent on the people who TRULY couldn’t leave.
That said the Mayor’s office has been a corrupt disgrace for decades and was not up leading New Orleans either before, during or after Katrina.
This is a good article about how New Orleans has found itself bereft of leadership.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_08_31_05ng.html
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:21:54 pm
Brendan -
You are so completely off-base its not funny. I won’t even comment any further.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:26:30 pm
I’ve been streaming WWL all week and I just heard a report which encapsulates the entire blame-the-feds-every-chance-you-get metality. The reporter, Jonathan Somebody, was at the site of helicopter pick-ups of refugees. Finally these people were getting evacuated! Then the reporter had to, had to, complain that the wind from the chopper blades was stirring up trash and blowing it all over refugees.
Give me a break!
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:28:11 pm
[ You are so completely off-base its not funny. I won’t even comment any further.]
Then stop being a troll.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:28:35 pm
Bravo. Sounds like you really hit the nail on the head, Brendan. Umm, I wrote asking about Tulane University and I finally have an answer.
“Dear friends of Tulane,
Since my relocation to Houston, I have had more access to information about the situation in New Orleans. I was hopeful that recovery would soon progress. However, given the ongoing situation in the city, I am forced to make an extremely difficult decision ñ Tulane University cannot hold a fall semester on its campus.
While this news is extremely disappointing to all of us, our students can continue their academic careers uninterrupted thanks to an avalanche of support from our colleagues in higher education.
Nine of the leading higher education associations, which represent hundreds of colleges and universities around the country, have developed a plan to accept Tulane students, as well as those from other institutions adversely affected by the hurricane, for the fall semester only. This coalition has set forth guidelines for temporary enrollment for the fall semester. Read the statement
Tulane University will accept credit for all courses with a passing grade from regionally accredited universities; such credit will be applied to a student’s Tulane course of study. We encourage all Tulane students to enroll in courses that they might have enrolled in at Tulane, but equivalent or near equivalent courses will also count to degree progress.
Students enrolled in schools and colleges with accredited professional programs (for example: Business School, School of Social Work, Engineering School, and School of Architecture) should enroll in universities with programs that are also accredited.
Our student-athletes are an integral part of this plan. We want our athletes to carry the torch, face, and name of Tulane University during this difficult time and we have worked out an arrangement within the context of the plan described above. This is made possible once again with assistance and generosity from colleges and universities ñ those in Conference USA and those outside of the conference - who have generously offered to help keep our teams together by providing not only academic opportunities but also practice facilities, playing facilities and general support.
As a president who is leading an institution during these challenging times, I have never been prouder than I am now to be in higher education. I am so indebted to my colleagues around the country for developing a plan that is both sensitive to the needs of our students and will also serve as a lifeline to those institutions dramatically affected.
Now that we have given guidance to our students, we will turn our attention to the many issues facing our employees. There are many unsung heroes in the Tulane community ñ men and women whose bravery made the evacuation of our campuses successful. Some are still on campus protecting our facilities. The Tulane community is indebted to you. I am aware of the myriad of questions and concerns of our staff. We intend to provide helpful information tomorrow.
As you can imagine, there are many issues involved in managing the university’s recovery. I realize you have questions ñ probably more questions than we can answer at this point. Rest assured that there will be opportunities to communicate and I will make myself available through a variety of means to do so. I anticipate communicating again by 1:00 pm CST tomorrow.
Scott Cowen ”
Thought I should report this to you.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:30:01 pm
People should be more hearty, christy. Every morning, I whittle sheet metal to a razor’s edge with my own teeth just so I can shave. Surely some trash wouldn’t bother me.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:32:51 pm
The outpooring of support for the college kids to start/continue their college educations is quite a heartwarming story. Hopefully there will be many more positive stories to come!
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:36:49 pm
Everybody is in a “blame someone else” mood, which is unfortunate. Has everybody forgotten that this storm was absolutely humongous?? Basically the storm overwhelmed everybody and everything. Has everyone forgotten that police, fire, hospital and rescue personnel were also affected by the storm. Their homes were inundated, their vehicles destroyed, their families endangered, etc. When the people were evacuated to the dome, naturally nobody anticipated this much damage to the city and infrastructure. Stop playing the blame game and concentrate on dealing with it. The storm was not stoppable.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:38:12 pm
1. New Orleans should have had an evacuation plan for the poor and those who could not drive. There was not one. That was the Mayor’s responsibility.
2. During his Sunday interviews, the Mayor did not beg or plead people to leave. He was very casual and laid back about the threat (and I am talking about his interviews after the mandatory evaculation order - not how he acted at that announcement) and he blatantly lied to the people of New Orleans about the threat.
Mayor Nagin is on tape saying - and this was even after it was a Category 5, that it would only take 1 or 2 weeks to get the water and electricity back on on New Orleans! And the reporers simply did not have the balls to challenge him on this. Again - this is all on tape.
He also told the reporters they were wrong when they tried to get him to warn the public about the dangers of the toxic waters if the stayed.
He constantly to the reporters frustration - minimized the danger.
3. And not once did he address in any way - how people who could not drive could get out of town. Not once did he ask for buses or volunteers to transport people - not even for the very ill who were helpless in their homes.
It is one thing to say the entire city could not be evacuated in time. It is another thing for the Mayor to have not done a single thing to get those most in need and those most threatened, transportation out of New Orleans.
And then - even after the storm - even as the levee breeches were filling the city with water - he STILL did not call for buses and trucks to get people out of New Orleans.
Lastly, I agree it is time to move past this and support everyone who is trying to fix the most urgent problems of the moment.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:38:21 pm
Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking. I have followed your blog for days now (thank you by the way) and was totally infuriated at listening/reading Nagin’s little fit he pitched about this. I hope the majority see his mistakes in all this rather than jumping on his finger pointing bandwagon. God help them all.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:43:11 pm
There is no doubt that all levels of Govt were inept in their reaction to the aftermath of the hurricane.
The one thing that REALLY gets to me is that New Orleans, after 9/11, was identified as one of the top 10 targets for terrorists because of the levy system. How is it that 5 years post 9/11, there was no system in place to respond to an emergency situation of this magnitude???
A terrorist attack comes with little or no warning….they (all authorities) had nearly a week’s worth of warning to get the response teams in place, yet they are just now arriving on scene, nearly 5 days after the fact.
Sad to say, but this hurricane has made it obvious that we are in no way, shape or form safer than we were before 9/11….
A failing grade for an administration that used terrorism as it’s platform if this is the measure of their 5 years of planning.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:47:01 pm
This comment is to everyone. How about going to your state web site and write to the officials regarding the response and aid . By writing here you do nothing to change what you feel is wrong. Hindsight is always 20/20, and right now the people dying and suffereing could care less about whose to blame. Write to your congress people and senators, ask them to answer your questions about the speed of response, lack of planning, and lack of funding for natural disaters. Tell them, and they will have to listen. We live in a democracy, utilize the rights we have to make a difference.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:48:29 pm
Hear hear, Brendan, you are absolutely right. And I agree with you too, Brady. I think the point of this exercise is to make sure a tragedy like this doesn’t ever happen again, when it could have been prevented, as in this case.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:50:27 pm
David,
In case you were wondering, the terms of your restraining order forbid any contact, including written communication. So please, don’t fire off any lust ridden missives to 1600 Penn.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:51:45 pm
Oh geez, Melissa, don’t you get it? It’s the STATE govt’s job to prepare for a disaster like this…the fed. govt. doesn’t even have the right to jump in and plan for something like this. And remember, folks- we’re talking about a state that re-elected a governor that had been put in the loony bin!!
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:57:01 pm
Terrorism is federal turf Paige. The Dept. of (so-called) Homeland Security, by now, should have had a plan in place for emergency implementation. Yes, the state, AND the mayor, messed up….but the Feds have their share of the blame if this is what 5 post 9/11 years of planning brought us.
September 2nd, 2005 at 7:59:49 pm
Much of this is a summary of my previous comments in the thread about Bush’s statements, but it’s worth repeating here…
The state and local authorities should have seen this thing coming. In 2002, the Times Picayune ran a 5-day special section called “Washing Away” on a hurricane just like this. The section is available for your review at nola.com. It’s almost scary how close their prediction is. They predicted 100,000 folks remaining in New Orleans and 80% of the City under water.
As another commenter mentioned, National Geographic published a story on this same topic in October 2004. Same prediction.
Also, go google “Hurricane Pam”. This was an exercise in 2004 that simulated this exact scenario complete with over 100,000 people who would fail to evacuate. Surely someone from the City attended this exercise and took notes.
And reading the report about the Hurricane Pam exercise I found these quotes about a survey of residents’ evacuation plans:
“That 21.4% of respondents would remain in their homes is a startling and important statistic, because it indicates that nearly 1 in 4 residents would refuse to leave their homes and 3 in 10 would refuse to leave the area.”
“As we have explored those findings, anecdotal evidence suggests that a ìcultureî of sorts may exist in New Orleans which encourages residents not to evacuate, even in the face of a major storm.”
Go read the entire thing yourself.
http://www.publichealth.hurrican…2001-06)- 01.pdf
Even the LA State Disaster Plan points to the responsibility of the local government. The section on Evacuations clearly notes that many people will have trouble evacuating and that the responsibility for evacuation plans is the responsibility of the local Parish or City. It even recommends using school buses or other public transportation to get these folks out prior to the hurricane. BTW, the plan is dated January 2000.
Go read it yourself.
http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/ p…upplement1a.pdf
Why the hell didn’t the local officials have a plan for evacuating these folks???????
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:02:40 pm
Oops. Broken link for the Hurricane Pam report:
Try this one.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:03:50 pm
And the LA Disaster Plan link too:
(Got to watch out for those spaces in those long links when copying and pasting…)
http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:06:25 pm
I live on the Big Island of Hawaii. We live with the constant possibility of having one of our volcanos letting go and or being blasted by a tsunami.
We all know it is a matter of when- not if.
So as a rational society what do we do? PLAN.
At the front of every phone book which I imagine is in the homes of 95% of the population there are detailed evacuation maps for the entire island. The maps also indicate where the flooding will occur- it isn’t rocket science to figure this stuff out.
The first of every month alarm sirens go off around the island to make sure the emergency warning system works. We all know that in the case of a real threat to get to the radio and receive direction.
I have not heard if such planning exists in NOLA. If it does then implementors blew it. If it does not then planners commited de facto mass murder.
I am sorry but the Mayor and other local officilas are clearly clueless in NOLA.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:07:40 pm
Remember when the Director of FEMA held a Cabinet post? Remember James Lee Witt? Ahhh…memories…
On a related note…has anyone looked to see what books Katrina checked out of the library?
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:10:42 pm
I agree, it is elected officials that should have formulated a plan to evacuate, but why didn’t the people have common sense and leave when they knew how big and powerful the strom was. I understand “standing your ground” would be acceptable in some cases, but come on people, it’s a storm…..
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:11:19 pm
BobS,
With all due respect, I’ve seen Dog the Bounty Hunter, and if a natural disaster strikes Hawaii, thousands of people will croak because they were too hopped up on ice to get out of the way. That place is a cesspool under the surface…
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:17:38 pm
THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR BLAME. Locals officials blaming National officials. Media blaming police and NG. Viewers blaming media. Whites and blacks blaming each other. Rich and poorÖ
Guess what, most everyone that has made a decision before, during and post Katrina, could have made a better one.
The fact is Katrina did not create a 50,000 person tragedy. She has displaced millions. Some have lost everything. So many killed or are dying. People stuck in the dark, literally and figuratively. Thousands have been mobilized to respond. The response is not the most efficient or well coordinated. But, responders are trying to save lives.
The local leaders and the responders went through the same storm that everyone else went through. Many donÃt have a home to go back to. Some donÃt know about their loved ones but, they keep working. They have enough stress without us adding to the problem. Yes, Brendan, I wish they would focus on recovery and not get involved in the blame game. I guess I can forgive them for wanting to blame. We are sitting at computers, snacking in air-conditioned comfort and look at all the posts that are about blame. We too are human.
We will have our day, but please not today.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:18:52 pm
Hurricane Katrina was an act of terrorism?…I think what Paige is saying is the STATE and LOCAL AUTHORITIES should have a emergency plan to supplemented by OUTSIDE HELP. For instance, when the state and local (the people who LIVE in the area) have control they can direct the outside help (federal, the people who DON”T live in the area) where to go and what to do! They also TELL the feds what they need in terms of help. When they fail (to notify and request) then the help that makes timely is inadequate and the other help takes longer.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:23:51 pm
I’m getting sick and tired of reading your carping and Monday-morning quarterbacking on Nagin, Brendan.
It’s NOT Monday-morning quaterbacking, considering I was saying the same thing AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED. I was advising people to evacuate Friday night because I assumed the mayor would order everyone out on Saturday morning. When he didn’t, I was stunned and baffled, and said so repeatedly on this blog. So don’t you dare accuse me of “Monday-morning quarterbacking” (or “hindsight is 20/20,” as someone else said)! I, based on the information I was aware of as a mere civilians, would have made a better decision than Mayor Nagin did, and that’s re-damn-diculous, considering all the resources and experts he had at his disposal! His failures are INEXCUSABLE and I will NOT ignore them!!
There will be blame enough to go around in the future.
Tell that to Mayor Nagin! He’s the one who took it upon himself to start ranting about how the federal government has failed, blah blah blah. I am directly responding to that, and saying, Mayor Nagin, YOU failed.
Please chill out and stop it for now, will you?
No.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:23:55 pm
I tried to comment about this over on the Huffington Post but they won’t post my comment.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:24:49 pm
Coach Leahy-
I now understand the magnitude of the intellect responsible for your many comments.
Coach, anyone who watches Dog, let alone takes the show as a source of reliable information is really not worth even this amount of time to respond.
Get a life sir.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:25:49 pm
61north, I refer you to my response here to your comments about Pam–Pam really was a different scenario than Katrina.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:26:47 pm
JL:
“On a related note…has anyone looked to see what books Katrina checked out of the library?”
I think you’re on to something here. The Dems. (Mayor, Governor, who had primary responsibility for planning for and executing an initial response) were so totally obsessed with imaginary threats (like who might be checking their library cards) that they totally dropped the ball on real threats, as Brendan has so ably documented.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:27:46 pm
Brendan,
You are doing a great job and it is very appreciated. I have been reading you since Saturday afternoon and you called the mayor on what you thought he was doing wrong AT THE TIME.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:29:20 pm
jm–you tried to comment about what, the buses or some other comment made here…
also Huff Po holds all their comments for review before posting…so much for freedom of speech
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:29:54 pm
Can someone who thinks “now is not the time for blame” please give me a straightforward and convincing explanation of how discussing “blame” actively hurts the relief effort? I mean, it’s not as if any of us would be giving more money to the Salvation Army, or driving trucks full of supplies down to N.O., if we weren’t talking about “blame.” I fail to see how a post on this blog discussing “blame” is going to decrease the chances of people surviving, getting needed supplies, etc. I was almost buying into the “now is not the game” logic earlier, but honestly… WHY? Can someone give me a rational reason why we shouldn’t talk about this?
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:30:21 pm
P.S. Bush declared LA a disaster before Nagin ordered the evacuation, and he appealed to Nagin and the Govornor for the evacuation to be ordered. Nagin really gets my gaul.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:32:03 pm
PPS I tried to comment on Nagin and the buses. I realize they censor comments that why there is nothing on their blog that doesn’t berate FEMA or the President.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:33:22 pm
I think all these politicians, from the mayor on up, should be planning major career changes. Peggy
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:34:27 pm
i posted this in Brendan newest post, but again
well this is rich…about Nagin at convention center..FOX Reporting and commentary fromthe corner
“…we get word that Mayor Nagin (h)was got friends hotel rooms (kicking others out) and then let them cut in line when the buses came. Someone’s going to have to get off his you know what and answer for a whole lot when some of the water clears, regardless of how much he wants to scream and spread the “g**d*mn” blame. ”
http:// corner.nationalreview.com…hive.asp#075316
peapies | 09.02.05 - 7:30 pm | #
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:40:00 pm
Brendan you are right. That is all there is to it. I do want to remind everyone about the good news about the good people of this country who have opened their private homes, churches who have sent food, supplies and helping hands and the towns and cities of this country who have opened their schools to the families who are displaced. I am so impressed with the majority of our fellow citizens at this time of great need. They deserve our thanks.What wonderful stories we will hear in days to come.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:47:08 pm
Brendan,
When officials are under attack and harsh criticism there is a natrual reaction which takes place. They begin to doubt their decision making and form defensive positions. The criticism wears them down, it effects actions on the ground because at some level someplace someone is concerned with how things are perceived.
Is this so hard to comprehend? Imagine you are putting out a fire and someone is standing over your shoulder criticising your every move. Would this be helpful? NO . Put out the fire and THEN start blaming.
Now if you have something to offer about a quicker way to put out the fire then by all means….
But the blame-fest does not have that as a goal does it?
In my opinion Brendan, your blog started out as a valuable source of information and has degraded to another flame-fest. Another 20-something who’s got “it all figured out”. You need to get some rest and perspective.
After all, who the fuck are you to think you know any better than the people on the ground?
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:49:18 pm
The Mayor sucks. The Governor sucks. The head of FEMA sucks. Bush sucks.
Plenty of blame for everyone.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:50:08 pm
Depthful Max…
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:51:37 pm
“Is this so hard to comprehend? Imagine you are putting out a fire and someone is standing over your shoulder criticising your every move. Would this be helpful? NO . Put out the fire and THEN start blaming.”
Imagine thousands of people haven’t had water for four days and the Feds tell you, “Be patient. We’ll be there eventually….”
They Mayor is an idiot and should have done more up front. However, given the situation by mid-week, someone should have stepped up to the plate, namely FEMA.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:53:34 pm
Hey! Sentences without “sucks” as the verb! Congrats!
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:55:06 pm
To the person who called me a a troll.. ha… I’ve probably been reading this blog longer than you. Regardless — this is in no way Nagin’s fault. He called for help long before this catastrophe.. said there was no way he was going to get everyone out.
Secondly — studies have shown, time and time again, that there is no possible way for New Orleans to be completely emptied unless warnings came 72 hours out.
Brendan, you should know better. Look at the forecast errors on this storm 72 hours before landfall.. they still had it going into the FL panhandle.
Brendan, do you blame Nagin because the national government took over 72 hours to have any kind of response????
I really think you should have given this post a lot more thought. Because you may have posted it at the risk of damaging your credibility.
Asking someone to evacuate a major city in less than 36-48 hours with today’s hurricane forecast is ludicrous.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:56:21 pm
Hey, but he is a blogger, how can you question his public policy credentials?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:00:06 pm
Hey, personally I take offense to that comment. He has a right to post what he wants on his blog but at the same time you can’t just ignore the national problems with the disaster response.
You can’t expect a major city to empty in anything less than 48 hours.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:03:10 pm
Who said he didn’t have a right. But with the power comes responsibility. If you spout BS in public don’t be surprised when someone calls you on it.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:03:10 pm
Who said he didn’t have a right. But with the power comes responsibility. If you spout BS in public don’t be surprised when someone calls you on it.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:08:40 pm
I guess we have all gotten so used to everything happening instantly so we don’t plan. We keep saying the feds should have jumped in sooner or faster…but overlook tiny details like a 72 hour call-up and what resources the Governor and officials were requesting…meanwhile this is alarming …
Femas, State and Local Guide (SLG) 101: Guide for All-Hazard Emergency Operations Planning
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/rrr/1-ch.pdf
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:08:47 pm
It’s true that any total evacuation of New Orleans would not have gone smoothly and that some people would have probably been left in the City under even the best plan. However, the criticism of the mayor here is based on the lack of effort. If the buses had been running non-stop for two days prior to the hurricane and if the mayor would stand up and take responsibility for his actions (or inactions) there would be much more tolerance for his mistakes.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:10:12 pm
I don’t think us attempting to assign blame in a blog is going to actively hurt the operations on the ground, Brendan, but I still don’t think that now is the appropriate time. You’ve referenced before the “fog of Katrina”. There will be plenty of time after the facts come in and have been verified to figure out exactly what went wrong and how it should have been done. Calling for people tot ake this storm seriously before it hit was valuable, as time was of the essence at the time and the dangers of being wrong were nowhere near as catastrophic as the dangers of being right that the storm would devastate the city. But time is not of the essence in determining blame, and many people have a very hard time changing their minds once new facts arrive to refute previously held beliefs. For that reason, I really feel it’s best to suspend judgment of how much blame various individuals should get at the moment for this whole scenario until we can actually determine it based on a much larger body of facts than we can possibly have at the moment.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:10:27 pm
Here’s an important story from back on August 28th, back when the mandatory evacuation order was finally given:
The evacuation order clearly came too late. There is no reason that President Bush should have had to personally ask the governor and mayor for the evacuation order. They should have started evacuation on Sunday.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:11:30 pm
Right of Center, my blog didn’t “start out” as one thing and “become” another. I’ve been blogging for two and a half years, not just five or six days. I have opinions and I express them. Obviously, I was in “breaking news” mode as the storm was making landfall and in the immediate aftermath as the city flooded, but now there is a bit more time for analysis even as news continues to break. Do you disagree with my analysis and my opnions? That’s fine. I stand by what I said.
this is in no way Nagin’s fault. He called for help long before this catastrophe.. said there was no way he was going to get everyone out.
No way to get everyone out? How about those buses, which are the central thesis of my post? I mean, if you can even get HALF of the people out, hell even 10 percent… shouldn’t you TRY?!?
there is no possible way for New Orleans to be completely emptied unless warnings came 72 hours out. Brendan, you should know better.
I am aware of the 72-hour studies. But HOW DOES THAT JUSTIFY WAITING UNTIL ONLY 24 HOURS BEFORE LANDFALL, when the NHC forecast 48-60 hours beforehand was calling for landfall on New Orleans? You could have gotten A HELL OF A LOT MORE people out, if you ordered the mandatory evacuation at 48 hours out!!
Look at the forecast errors on this storm 72 hours before landfall.. they still had it going into the FL panhandle.
Yeah, but the computer models runs around ~64 hours lurched to the west. At 60 hours (5pm Fri), the official track’s landfall predicted shifted to Mobile, and at 54 hours (11pm Fri) it shifted to New Orleans. By 42-48 hours, hurricane watches were up, and the grave threat to New Orleans was clear, and I was saying on this very blog that evacuations were necessary. How can you say that it was correct for Nagin to wait 24
Brendan, do you blame Nagin because the national government took over 72 hours to have any kind of response????
Are you talking about the response after the storm? No, I blame Nagin, as I have made clear SINCE SATURDAY, for not evacuating the city 24 hours sooner than he did. And now I also blame him for clearly squandering the resources he had, like those buses.
I really think you should have given this post a lot more thought. Because you may have posted it at the risk of damaging your credibility.
Considering that it appears there are 3-4 people on this thread who disagree with me, and everyone else agrees, I think my credibility will be fine. And even if it’s not, well, fine, I’ll go down in flames for what I believe. Nagin screwed up and people died as a result.
Asking someone to evacuate a major city in less than 36-48 hours with today’s hurricane forecast is ludicrous.
What the hell are you talking about? Evacuating in less than 36-48 hours is exactly what Nagin tried to do. Evacuating in 42-48 hours is what I wanted him to do, and assumed he would, by calling a mandatory evacuation on Saturday.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:12:10 pm
Leahy, i have just one thing to say. What the hell are you talking about with a restraining order? Are you schizo or something?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:12:44 pm
You can’t expect a major city to empty in anything less than 48 hours.
Which is precisely why Nagin should have ordered the evacuation on Saturday, 48 hours before landfall, as I said on Saturday. Why is this hard to understand? Why does saying it “damage my credibility”?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:17:19 pm
Ed, don’t want a flame war, but no, Nagin didn’t… “..The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding…”
and secondly, 72 hours to respond is pretty standard which is alarming that the LA State EOP didn’t procure adequate assistance earlier, or call for evacuations till less that 24 hours before.
Remember, it is up to the State Emergency Office to asess and request the help! Otherwise, your saying that State Govt. is not in charge of the states emergency? The Feds should have kicked them out of the way?
yeah right.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:19:44 pm
Ohhh.. so you blogged before Katrina. Well then I bow to your weeks of prior experience (or maybe months?). Or how long has it been in the 5 years you have not been on Daddy’s dime for the rent…
You keep touting how many hits your blog is getting and how many people read it.
Well, Bren, now you gotta watch what you say. You need to take on a little responsibilty for your statements because you are begining to move from the “part of the solution” column to “part of the problem” column.
What hubris, to think some fuck tapping on his blog know who to blame for the deaths of hundreds or maybe thousands.
You can “call it like you see it” all you want, but, again, who the fuck are you to think you know anything about whom to blame?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:21:56 pm
61north,
Precisely. The point is not whether Nagin failed to execute some part of the plan, or left a few people behind. He hardly even made an effort. The picture of 200 buses lined up in nice, neat, shiny, flooded rows says it all. I suspect more will come out as time passes.
People can and will criticize the relief effort to no end, but what’s really shameful is the lack of preparation. The city and state hardly even tried. One can bitch all day long about how they were “overwhelmed,” or how people get “hurricane fatigue,” but it’s the job of the mayor and the governor to make their best efforts to protect people, and to say that they gave it 110% in this case is simply fiction.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:24:07 pm
Right of Center, I’m a human being, a citizen of this country and a person who is deeply distressed about what has happened in New Orleans. I have every right to come to my own opinions about things. Again, if you don’t like my opinions, that’s fine. If you dislike them so much that you’re going to insult me and call me names, maybe you should just go away and read someone else’s blog. I’m certainly done talking to you about this, as you clearly have nothing productive to say.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:26:26 pm
Why is it that local govenments and their residents always complain when the federal government steps on their toes when it comes to education, welfare, …. and yes emergency management. Yet local governments never have the guts to stand up and take the blame when they screw everything up. Don’t get me wrong, I ‘m not advocating the fed’s taking over the country. Instead I’m advocating a little ownership at least once in a while. The mayor and governor really botched things up and should stand up and say so. Its called integrity!
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:28:48 pm
You can’t even take the heat of some anonymous words on a CRT screen critical of your outrageous and ill-informed rantings (long distance and not in-person, even) and you have the gall to “decide” who is to blame for the hurricane deaths?
Does hypocrisy mean anything to you?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:28:48 pm
You can’t even take the heat of some anonymous words on a CRT screen critical of your outrageous and ill-informed rantings (long distance and not in-person, even) and you have the gall to “decide” who is to blame for the hurricane deaths?
Does hypocrisy mean anything to you?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:29:22 pm
Well, thank you for 4 days of valuable factual blogging, Brendan. It was truly helpful. Now that you have decided to spend most of your time talking about who is to blame, and the commenters want the mayor to take time out of trying to help things to “accept responsibility” for his odious failings, it’s not useful or helpful to me as a Louisiana resident anymore. I’ll be doing ample assigning of blame over in a few months, but now is not the time, no matter how many bloggers may think so. So thanks for 4 days of good work, and good bye.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:29:49 pm
jm-
ahmen
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:30:43 pm
I’m beginning to think… wait… have concluded that RightofCenter is part of the problem, not Brandon. If you can’t express yourself without personal attacks you didn’t listen to mommy when she taught you about common decency RightofCenter.
Brandon, I was lucky to find your site, it has been great during this whole catastrophe.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:32:34 pm
way to go RoC. can’t argue so call him a spoiled rich kid who’s not entitled to an opinion. very clever and original.
in response to your original point, that criticism causes people in charge to enter a defensive mode.. I call bullshit. People in charge are expected, nay, OBLIGATED, to defend their positions all the time. The whole REASON we put these people in charge is to stand firm and be above that kind of thing. If they can’t take a little flak without going into a shell, THEY SHOULDN’T FUCKING BE IN CHARGE.
To use your rather weak firehose analogy: if someone criticizes your firefighting technique, you finish putting out the fire. If the critic is interfering with you, you turn the firehose on him until he stops interfering. Your primary job is to put out the fire, not worry about how people will perceive your firefighting skills. If your skills are good, there’s nothing to worry about. If they’re bad… well, you’ll be burned up anyway and won’t have anything to worry about.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:32:44 pm
I think common decency includes not calling public servants basically crooks and murderers because in your testorone-addled brain you need to afix blame so things are not too complicated.
If Brendan-boy can’t take it then he shouldn’t dish it out, eh?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:32:59 pm
Right of Center…something you might consider
don’t type www.brendanloy.com om your browsers address window
just a thought
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:33:13 pm
Who made Right of Center God? Did I miss the vote?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:35:31 pm
Can’t have anyone who disagrees, huh? The cognitive dissonance gets too hard to bear?
Brendan’s post is over the top, hypocritical and full of hubris. Total BS and someone needs to call him on it.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:35:59 pm
” that criticism causes people in charge to enter a defensive mode”
and you aren’t?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:37:20 pm
jm-
the criticism is causing him to be in defensive mode
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:38:27 pm
Perfectly ok to decide the mayor is “responsible” for the deaths and bodies he has been dealing with for 3 days. But harshly criticise the Boy-Bren and use nasty words and, my goodness, “where’s the civility?”
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:42:12 pm
Edward,
Brendan didn’t say that NO could have been emptied completely 72 hours in advance of the storm. He said more could have been done with the information that was available 2 day out, 1 day out, etc. There was apparently no plan, and certainly no execution of a plan to use local resources to help the needy evacuate before or immediately after the storm (example: the infamous picture of a huge lot of school buses neatly lined up and idle in a (now) flooded parking lot.) To provide some additional perspective, here is what Dr. Jeff Masters, a professional meterologist, posted on his blog (http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/archive.html?tstamp=200508) at 11:25 A.M. on 8/27:
“I’d hate to be an Emergency Management official in New Orleans right now. Katrina is pretty much following the NHC forecast, and appears likely to pass VERY close to New Orleans. I’m surprised they haven’t ordered an evacuation of the city yet. While the odds of a catastropic hit that would completely flood the city of New Orleans are probably 10%, that is way too high in my opinion to justify leaving the people in the city. If I lived in the city, I would evactuate NOW! There is a very good reason that the Coroner’s office in New Orleans keeps 10,000 body bags on hand. The risks are too great from this storm, and a weekend away from the city would be nice anyway, right? GO! New Orleans needs a full 72 hours to evacuate, and landfall is already less than 72 hours away. Get out now and beat the rush. You’re not going to have to go to work or school on Monday anyway. If an evacuation is ordered, not everyone who wants to get out may be able to do so–particularly the 60,000 poor people with no cars.”
If you want to avoid making judgements in hindsight, you may want to follow his subsequent postings which become increasingly explicit about the threat to NO.
I’d be interested in seeing evidence of corresponding explicit actions by NO officials, e.g. pre-positioning buses, emergency vehicles etc. on high gournd.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:42:18 pm
Right of Center the only thing I’m getting from your comments is opinion. At least Brendan has laid down some facts.
1. Mayor should have evacuated earlier. President Bush had to ask him to. My brother left NO before the mayor bother to order an evac. If normal people have enough brains to leave, don’t you think emergency management professionals ought to call for an evac.
2. No food or water at the superdome or other evacuation sites. Maybe he missed the last 300 hurrincanes but usually (ok nearly always) power goes out, and that means running water.
3. Parking lot full of buses.
4. Bush declared an emergency situation for LA before the evacaution order.
Do I have to come up with more!!!!
Please, anyone can see the locals screwed up and are using the Fed’s as their scapegoat.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:45:22 pm
Great post! But your subject line should read buses not busses(kisses).
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:46:23 pm
peapies-
your funny
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:47:07 pm
Your “criticism” reduces to “Brendan shouldn’t criticize because it might hurt people’s feelings.” That’s not anything substantial, just a bunch of hand-waving about the messenger rather than the message.
The unspoken point here: The mayor couldn’t handle the preparation phase (judging by 200 buses in a flooded lot), which is the EASY part of dealing with disaster. If he failed at that, how is going to handle the much harder recovery phase? How can we TRUST the mayor to handle it, and why should we continue listen to him now that he’s bitching about the federal response?
I don’t have to be a mayor to level that kind of charge.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:47:16 pm
Right of Center, where is it that Brendan’s being hypocritical? I can see how you assign hubris to him * I can also see where you think it’s over the top. But Brendan is NOT one to squash disagreement just because he can’t handle someone having a different opinion than he does. If you honestly think that he is, you just have no clue what Brendan’s like. The probable reason for his ire at you is your complete and utter lack of tact in how you disagreed with him. I will be astounded, quite frankly, if he responds to my disagreement in anything remotely like he’s responded to yours.
*Something with which I’ll disagree–Brendan has every right to make up his own mind about who he thinks is to blame. Fundamentally, it’s an opinion, not a fact, and he has just as much right to state what it is as anyone else does. His statements about how early he was calling for evacuation and how long he’s felt the mayor was wrong on this were not attempt to establish himself as an authority on the subject, but to refute the frequent “hindsight is 20/20″ comments he’s gotten the past few days, as he was demonstratably saying these things before the storm hit, much less the flooding began.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:48:56 pm
When the Mayor was point the blame finger and tossing vulgarities at the federal officials and begging them to commandeer 500 Greyhound buses… what is wrong with pointing the finger back at him and at the flooded buses he should have used.
Talk about “get their asses moving”… a little too late…
Nope, can’t do that, Right of Center?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:48:56 pm
When the Mayor was point the blame finger and tossing vulgarities at the federal officials and begging them to commandeer 500 Greyhound buses… what is wrong with pointing the finger back at him and at the flooded buses he should have used.
Talk about “get their asses moving”… a little too late…
Nope, can’t do that, Right of Center?
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:49:23 pm
Melissa,
The response to terrorists blowing up the levies would be substantially different than the response to a HURRICANE that does damage throughout the LA and MS. The problems would have been localized to NOLA. The roads outside of NOLA would have not been flooded, power would be available in most places, bridges would not be out, etc. The response would have been much quicker because there would not be so many complications.
Moreover, you can’t get response teams prepositioned for a disaster like this. The teams would likely have drowned or their equipment would have been destroyed. You simply have to recognize that the post-flooding response is by its very nature a logistical nightmare.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:49:59 pm
jm
they may have well screwed up. Big time. my point is that it is too early to know what the real problems were and is counter-productive and harmful to engage in this blame-fest at the current time.
But when the time comes for understanding the problems and causes of the lack of planning, I propose we ignore the ill-informed “musings” of the boy-genius hundreds of miles away with a large “readership” and absolutely no credentials (save for his opinions and the ability to watch CNN).
I just want to beat the rush and encourage folks to start ignoring the BS “conclusions” now!
Am I being harsh? Yep. But much less so than his post!
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:51:33 pm
I’d also like to know why Nagin waited 12 hours before the storm hit to order an evacuation. I’d also like to know why he didn’t do this until Bush had to call Governor Blanco and literally beg them to evacuate.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:53:29 pm
mike,
sorry. someone who says:
“Too many cooks in the kitchen”? How about, “one too many idiots in the mayor’s office”?
and then chastises me for being a meanie and calling him names, is, well, yes, a hypocrite.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:55:06 pm
p.s. if Bren-ie wants civility, then he should practice it is his posts…
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:55:38 pm
Don’t feed the troll, people.
As for you, PatHMV, I’m sorry to see you go. It is indeed inevitable that I will lose some readers as I move away from strictly “factual blogging” about Katrina and start talking again about other topics, and also expressing my opinion. This is not usually an “only the facts, ma’am” blog, nor an all-hurricane blog, and I’m not going to turn it into one. So, like I said, I’m sorry to see you go, but I accept that such attrition is inevitable over time.
That said, your statement that I have “decided to spend most of [my] time talking about who is to blame” is factually incorrect, as can be easily demonstrated by scrolling through the 25 posts on my homepage right now, 22 of which were written by me, and they break down like this:
Posts about news happening right now in the affected areas: 4
Posts about how to donate to help hurricane relief: 4
Other straightforward, non-opinionated posts about news or personal stories related to Katrina: 3
Posts about who is to blame: 3 (4 if you count the post where Bush calls the relief effort “not acceptable,” but that’s really a breaking-news post)
Posts about the local (Notre Dame / South Bend) angle of Katrina’s impact: 2
Posts about who is giving aid to help with the aftermath: 2
Posts with Katrina-related imagery: 2
Non-Katrina-related posts: 2
Three out of 22 is not “most.”
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:56:13 pm
your subject line should read buses not busses
According to Mirriam-Webster, both are correct spellings… and since I am quoting someone else, I decided to leave it alone. Although I’m with you, I prefer “buses.”
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:56:54 pm
Eric,
I am not defending the Mayor. I am being harshly critical of Brendan.
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:57:12 pm
wow, r’s post above is crazy scary
“I’d be interested in seeing evidence of corresponding explicit actions by NO officials, e.g. pre-positioning buses, emergency vehicles etc. on high gournd.”
what exactly do you mean by this? Their pre-plan in paper form? or details of the actual actions all the way through?
I’d like to know when and what the Govs offices did in the way of communicating help needs. My sense is the total focus was all levee and repair
jm- so are you
September 2nd, 2005 at 9:59:39 pm
“don’t feed the troll people” ahhh…. the “Coup de Gr‚ce” of the blog-hypocrite. He can dish it out but can’t take it, eh?
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:02:40 pm
Right of Center-
I see your point. There have been and are going to be lots of mistakes in the coming weeks. Lets home we are smart enought to learn as we go. I think most of us are peeved at Nagin because he is out there dishing it out when he really screwed things up. He should be saying “I screwed up, we need help”.
Even so the personal attack on Brendon’s living and financial conditions were not called for. Use your wit to argue with me but please leave the insults and home and I will do the same.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:03:50 pm
that should be “lets hope” and “at home”
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:06:50 pm
jm — spot on.
I think Nagin *might* be getting something of a free pass (if not from Brendon, then maybe from others), had it not been for his delusional rant earlier today.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:10:00 pm
jm,
well, i usually am all for civility, but when we are talking about real deaths and real people and outreagous “decisions” of blame are being voiced by remote “news-watcher’s”, I am sorry, but it can’t be all “brandy snifters and back slaps”. It’s time for a little harsh language.
Sorry to be a “troll” again, but NO 23 year old is in a position or qualified to afix blame for such a monumental thing as this. Especially, especially if his claim-to-fame is that he has been “blooging for some time now”.
Sorry.
Opinion is fine, but re-read his post. You get what you give….
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:14:20 pm
Right of Center-
Who is qualified to afix blame? Nagin seemed to think he was except when it came to himself.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:15:34 pm
Right of Center
You should pass on some of your comments to the mayor while your at it.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:16:45 pm
brendan —now your getting a super-instalanche
top of the fold!
http://instapundit.com/archives/025311.php
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:18:06 pm
“Get off your asses!”, correct me if im wrong does that sound like he is pointing figuers or begging for help.?
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:18:36 pm
Brendan, I agree with you that Nagin is the one that most obviously and grievously dropped the ball. He f’d up bad, and now needs to watch his words so as not to become a bigger ass. However, I think a lot of Nagin’s criticism is justified and legit. The reponse was slow (including his own) and inadequate, this is indisputable. And if his rant motivated someone or otherwise produced a positive result, then bravo for him. Even if it was hypocritical.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:20:02 pm
peapies,
“wow, r’s post above is crazy scary”
My intent was to provide a professional source on the type of information that was being discussed well before landfall (in response of Edwards comments)by observers other than Brendan. This was a bit less than 72 hours out. At that point the professional opinion was of a 10 percent probability of a direct hit. Not huge, accept in terms of the potential consequences.
The rhetorical question was not about paper plans, nor detailed lists of actions, but rather a few bullet points that might reasonably correlate with the increasing threat.
In terms of
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:27:35 pm
R- I meant by crazy scary in that the meteorologists post was eerie. thanks for your response. I would too
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:30:47 pm
I think response has been slow but I don’t see how it could have been faster. The only thing I can think of would have been to have airlifted food and water to the superdome and convention center. Rescue operations were so large and so fast it was incredible.
You can view this on instapundit:
I run a trade association of tank truck carriers trying to assist in the relief efforts by transporting food and potable water. I’m in regular contact with many of the companies, and here are some “on the ground” facts:
1) Large trucks (80,000 lbs. gross weight) almost always have to use the Interstates. For trucks attempting to come in from outside the area, most of those roads (approaching the disaster area) are either closed or have bridges out. The so-called secondary roads may be somewhat passable, but their bridges (over rivers and streams) are not built to sustain such loads. Simply stated, you can’t get there from here.
2) Trucks domicled in those areas (because that’s where the companies traditionally serve customers) are still underwater, thus the equipment is not accessible;
3) Nobody in their right mind is going to take loads of gasoline and fuel oil into a city controlled by unfriendly folks carrying automatic weapons. A tank truck loaded with 8,000 gallons of gasoline can produce a very impressive fire;
4) Those local trucking companies can’t contact their drivers. There’s no power, thus (even) cellular is unavailable, and many of the drivers homes (in places like Kenner, Slidel, Metarie, etc) have been destroyed and families dispersed. I have one member with about 120 drivers and mechanics in that immediate area. To date, management has been able to contact 12. Those in the National Guard have been mobilized and are not available to drive.
5) Pumps — needed to load the vehicles — don’t work because there’s no power.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:32:10 pm
I don’t think us attempting to assign blame in a blog is going to actively hurt the operations on the ground, Brendan, but I still don’t think that now is the appropriate time. You’ve referenced before the “fog of Katrina”. There will be plenty of time after the facts come in and have been verified to figure out exactly what went wrong and how it should have been done. Calling for people tot ake this storm seriously before it hit was valuable, as time was of the essence at the time and the dangers of being wrong were nowhere near as catastrophic as the dangers of being right that the storm would devastate the city. But time is not of the essence in determining blame, and many people have a very hard time changing their minds once new facts arrive to refute previously held beliefs. For that reason, I really feel it’s best to suspend judgment of how much blame various individuals should get at the moment for this whole scenario until we can actually determine it based on a much larger body of facts than we can possibly have at the moment.
As you know, Mike, I respect your opinion a lot, and this is certainly the best argument I’ve heard articulated for why it’s best to wait on the criticism. (It’s certainly better than the “criticism might demoralize the mayor” argument, which is so tenuous that it borders on downright silly, and which can be rebutted simply by suggesting that criticism might inspire the mayor to try harder to do a better job!)
However, when you say that “many people have a very hard time changing their minds once new facts arrive to refute previously held beliefs,” in a sense that actually does make “time…of the essence” in attempting to shatter the meme created by the mayor’s “everyone is at fault except me” speech last night. I know it sounds juvenile to say “he started it,” but the fact is, he kicked off the blame game, and because his comment was given such widespread, favorable play in the media, there is a serious possibility that the perception that the feds bear more blame than Nagin & the locals might sink in, solidify, and once that happens, “many people have a very hard time changing their minds,” as you say. Thus, there is a certain amount of urgency of refuting Nagin’s rant, at least insofar as saying, “Hey, bub, you bear responsibility for this too.”
That said, I will take your words to heart moving forward as I consider when and whether to put up “blame-game” posts. I’m not promising never to post them, certainly, nor to wait a certain amount of time… I’m not giving a timetable for when it will become appropriate (hi Donald Rumsfeld :). But I will weigh the concern that you’ve raised against the other concerns in trying to decide whether posting is appropriate.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:32:36 pm
Jeryl Cook-
You should listen to everything he said.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:33:08 pm
The only shame in this thread is that Right of Center isn’t anal diving Ray Nagin at the corner of Franklin and Filmore where the rest of the pond scum is growing.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:40:12 pm
Surely it’s possible to blame Nagin for dropping the ball on the evacuation order and still be heavily critical of the state and federal govt’s rather slow responses.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:46:26 pm
Why do some (ROC) consider that it is impossible to evacuate an unflooded NO in 72 hours, but then think it is possible to rescue a lake of 100,000 within 96 hours?
It is even tougher to rescue than to evacuate. Especially in a flood situation.
The rescue operation was organizing and implementing behind the scenes, while everybody was sucking up the porn of looting.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:47:01 pm
Eric:
You said:
When the Mayor was point the blame finger and tossing vulgarities at the federal officials and begging them to commandeer 500 Greyhound buses… what is wrong with pointing the finger back at him and at the flooded buses he should have used.
WHAT’S WRONG is that Brendan, you, and others are pointing fingers about what should or should not have been done 3 days ago. The screaming that Mayor Nagin did was directed and what needs to be done RIGHT NOW. One is backward looking and the other is forward looking.
Why we are where we are is pretty irrelevant while people are dying and bodies are lying in the street and babies are going without food. What we must be doing right now is far, far, FAR more important.
Would you prefer that the Mayor say, ok, well, I screwed up, so don’t bother to help my city now? Should he not scream, as Shepard Smith of FoxNews has been doing for 4 days, that people need immediate help which the city does not have the ability to provide, and which the state and federal government are only beginning to provide? Would your feelings be soothed if he preceded every request for help with a huge mea culpa? Bully for you. Let’s call him up and tell him you don’t like his attitude. But that’s not going to help the survivors any more.
September 2nd, 2005 at 10:47:13 pm
Surely it’s possible to blame Nagin for dropping the ball on the evacuation order and still be heavily critical of the state and federal govt’s rather slow responses.
I’m not sure if you’re responding to me or someone else, but yes, it absolutely is, as I pointed out in comment #3 of this 113-comment-long thread. :)
September 2nd, 2005 at 11:12:15 pm
PatHMV, it’s one thing to beg for help… it’s another thing to say that the feds are “sitting on their asses” and so forth. He was clearly and intentionally doing two things at once: criticizing their past actions AND asking for future help.
Beyond that, I would refer you to my response to Mike.
September 2nd, 2005 at 11:15:05 pm
It is time consuming to assemble the resources you need for this type of operation in an area that has been hit by a hurricane, flooded and suffering from a lack of security. I’m not saying that the federal government has done an abosolutely superb job, but I don’t think it is reasonable to expect instant results in this type of situation. I personally feel that Nagin is just trying to look good in the media by needlessly blaming federal officials.
September 2nd, 2005 at 11:31:47 pm
Brendan,
I saw it and decided to stick around awhile longer.
As for the mayor’s tone and finger-pointing, I just don’t see it the same way you do. I see a mayor desparate to save what’s left of his city, lashing out in frustration at delays. It’s not politically motivated, he’s not sitting there thinking, I’ve got to blame this on someone else. He’s doing everything he can right now, which is not much given the limited resources remaining in the city, to get help down there now, where babies are on the brink of dying because they don’t have baby formula. I really don’t give a rat’s ass what kind of tone he has, and if he wasn’t telling aid workers to get off their ass, I would be disappointed. Lots of people should be getting off their asses. The mayor has been pleading for busses since Tuesday to remove people. Yet there are still thousands of people literally locked in the convention center. Sure, maybe he should have used the school busses to get people out before, but those flooded school busses are usless right now.
September 2nd, 2005 at 11:33:08 pm
Brendan, you forgot to mention the number of cat-blogging posts: (a whole lot!!).
I’ve been reading this blog for almost a year now and have agreed with Brendan time after time, and disagreed with Brendan time after time.
This is his blog and if he wants to blame Santa Claus for not responding fast enough, that’s his right. If you don’t like what he’s saying, then you can type something else in the Address bar.
Keep up the good work Brendan.
September 2nd, 2005 at 11:48:24 pm
What you said in this post needed to be said for exactly the reason you explained above.
I watched the NBC News tonight. Of the several stories they had about NO, the only mentions they made of state or local officials were to show the police chief’s emotional statement of this afternoon and to play the mayor’s diatribe. It was as if they consider the feds wholly and exclusively responsible for preparation, evacuation, and rescue and that any and all failures were entirely the responsibility of the Bush administration.
September 2nd, 2005 at 11:51:46 pm
Brendan,
I just took a look at the LA Emergency Operations Plan. It clearly says that those school busses are part of the plan. When the mayor announced the mandatory evacuation, he also had the responsibility to marshal the busses and announce pickup points and times and have the busses make rounds to pick folks up. He didn’t.
September 3rd, 2005 at 12:08:58 am
Thanks Dave for that info…and 364 city transit buses…
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html
“Nagin lashed out at federal officials yesterday for the government’s relief efforts, pleading for the government to round up “500 buses” to send to New Orleans to evacuate survivors…
…each bus could hold just 60 people, NORTA’s 364 buses had the capacity to take almost 22,000 peope out of harm’s way per trip…”
so roughly 600 buses…roughly 30,000 per trip I guess…
however if you wait so long to call for the evac. smart bus drivers have gone, so really utter failure to not have initiated the plan at all
Also, is there a reason Nagin was not with the Gov.? or at some central command and control? that anyone knows of?
September 3rd, 2005 at 1:22:05 am
Good thing Nagin isn’t white, his ass would be in a sling for “intentionally” killing all the poor black people in NO.
September 3rd, 2005 at 1:41:45 am
Right of Center
This is America and you are certainly free to have an opinion. Of course you are excercising your right to be wrong about it too.
It is clear to anyone who was paying attention that the information was there, staring Mayor Nagin in the face that Hurricane Katrina was going to hit New Orleans, well before he called for the evacuation. All of us here on the blog new it, there was an article in National Geographic that has been linked around here that pretty much laid out this exact scenario, heck New Orleans levies were even identified as a potential terrorist target after 9/11. The information was there and as the Mayor of New Orleans it was his responsibility to be aware of it and act appropriately.
Mayor Nagin clearly did not do so. He did not order the evacuation early enough, and when he did he did so in the most anemic way possible. The fact, that has been pointed out above, that busses intended for just such a situation as this one were not even used!
The Mayor then turns around and demands busses from elsewhere and that the federal gov’t needs to get moving. While both may be valid, I think that many of us agree that the state and federal governments reactions have been sub par as well, coming from a man whos own reactions were anemic seems pretty hypocritical.
Then you come in here and decide you not only get to tell Brendan what to do, but that you are the authority on when the rest of us can express ourselves too. Brendan offered a criticism based on facts that yes, belittled the mayors office. You come in here just insulting people left and right and deciding what people can and can’t talk about. yeah its a bit different.
So really RoC, what does it say that some “23 year old” figured out how bad this was gonig to be but the Mayor of New Orleans didn’t?
September 3rd, 2005 at 1:45:18 am
someone who agrees with brendan http://junkyardblog.net/archives/week_2005_08_28.html#004749
September 3rd, 2005 at 1:46:18 am
Oh and I can’t miss this quote from the Mayor:
“Now get off your asses and do something, and let’s fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country”
You know, I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that the Civil War was the biggest crisis in the history of the country…
September 3rd, 2005 at 4:13:08 am
I, too, read the LA Emergency Operations Plan (thanks, 61North, for providing the link), and I noted some very key provisions:
1. Regarding the 72-hour evacuation, here’s what one of the opening paragraphs has to say about when to start the process:
When a hurricane enters or takes form i